KINDJAL?? QAMA?? FOR COMMENT

ariel · 2nd December 2009, 12:43 AM

Without holding it in my hands, I suspect that the silverwork is new and assembled from different pieces: look how the middle panel differs from other ones.

kahnjar1 · 2nd December 2009, 04:26 AM

Interesting----I was about to repost this as I got no response before. The centre panel is certainly an addition. OK we have 2 differing opinions as to origin. What is reason for the attribution to Turkey?---and to Caucasus? I had been told it came from Dagistan and dated to around 1910.
The niello is NOT new and apart from the centre section the piece looks to be all made at one time and not a combination of "bits".
Regards Stuart

Gess · 2nd December 2009, 12:17 PM

Here's my "Turk", purchased on eBay.
Of course, the more coarse imitation of Damascus, but ... you should look.
False damascus etch in valleys blade.

Gess · 2nd December 2009, 12:39 PM

Here's my "Tiflisky" kinjal. And a sample of grain on my other integrally silver kinjal.

Work on the silver on your kinjal, rather primitive and crude.
Blade itself - may be Dagestan.
If this Dagestan - a modern (2007-2009) and assembly, as said Ariel.

Gess · 2nd December 2009, 01:02 PM

See how to look old rivets.
For the modern masters - too much work.

Gess · 2nd December 2009, 01:36 PM

Dear Stuart!
No injuries. On Turkey, I thought because of the imitation of Damascus, the press and the middle of scabbard.
But everything else looks more like a modern art work of the Caucasus.
Currently works a huge industry, for the production of fakes and replicas. And in Turkey, and in Caucasus. There are some things that to understand difficult, to experts.
I hope you do not pay much expensive.
Regards

kahnjar1 · 2nd December 2009, 05:24 PM

DEFINATELY NOT a modern piece. The KNOWN (and indisputable) provenance is that this piece was one of several edged weapons collected by well known local family during a world journey in the 1930s. The fullers are in my opinion NOT designed to resemble damascus but are purely finely decorated in the "valleys". As stated before, the centre section of the scabbard has been added later. The Niello work is not rough. I will try to post better pics of that.
What about a comment as to origin of the blade mark?
Regards Stuart

2nd December 2009, 12:17 PM	#3
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Here's my "Turk", purchased on eBay. Of course, the more coarse imitation of Damascus, but ... you should look. False damascus etch in valleys blade. Attached Images

2nd December 2009, 12:39 PM	#4
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Here's my "Tiflisky" kinjal. And a sample of grain on my other integrally silver kinjal. Work on the silver on your kinjal, rather primitive and crude. Blade itself - may be Dagestan. If this Dagestan - a modern (2007-2009) and assembly, as said Ariel. Attached Images Last edited by Gess; 2nd December 2009 at 01:17 PM.

2nd December 2009, 01:02 PM	#5
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	See how to look old rivets. For the modern masters - too much work. Attached Images

2nd December 2009, 12:43 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Without holding it in my hands, I suspect that the silverwork is new and assembled from different pieces: look how the middle panel differs from other ones.

2nd December 2009, 04:26 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Interesting----I was about to repost this as I got no response before. The centre panel is certainly an addition. OK we have 2 differing opinions as to origin. What is reason for the attribution to Turkey?---and to Caucasus? I had been told it came from Dagistan and dated to around 1910. The niello is NOT new and apart from the centre section the piece looks to be all made at one time and not a combination of "bits". Regards Stuart

2nd December 2009, 01:36 PM	#6
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Dear Stuart! No injuries. On Turkey, I thought because of the imitation of Damascus, the press and the middle of scabbard. But everything else looks more like a modern art work of the Caucasus. Currently works a huge industry, for the production of fakes and replicas. And in Turkey, and in Caucasus. There are some things that to understand difficult, to experts. I hope you do not pay much expensive. Regards

2nd December 2009, 05:24 PM	#7
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	DEFINATELY NOT a modern piece. The KNOWN (and indisputable) provenance is that this piece was one of several edged weapons collected by well known local family during a world journey in the 1930s. The fullers are in my opinion NOT designed to resemble damascus but are purely finely decorated in the "valleys". As stated before, the centre section of the scabbard has been added later. The Niello work is not rough. I will try to post better pics of that. What about a comment as to origin of the blade mark? Regards Stuart