Ethics and Policies

Spunjer · 26th November 2009, 08:13 PM

beat me by a few seconds, david. thanks.

A. G. Maisey · 26th November 2009, 10:01 PM

Yeah, I deal.

Have done so for almost as long as I've collected keris --- 50 something years.

Since about 1977 I've dealt internationally; used to do it with letters and photos, now I do it with my website.

I think that most keris aligned people who frequent the E.E.W. site already know this.

If it is deemed desireable to identify those of us who deal, it would suggest that a group mailing go out to all members so that a data base can be established, and that all new members should be required to ID themselves as dealers if in fact they are.

Personally, I feel that it is not so much the fact that somebody deals that is what should be addressed, as the use of a specific posting for commercial purposes. Yes, possibly the membership should be made aware of who the dealers are, but more important they should be made aware of an item posted for comment that will be offered for sale in the near future.

We now have what I believe to be a good cross sectional representation of members opinions.

There has been a lot of very valid comment.

I would suggest that now we have a general direction, specific objectives of any changes in rules should be identified.

To my way of thinking there are two overall objectives:-

1) --- to identify all unethical dealers

2) --- to give the swap forum back to pure collectors

Perhaps we could now have some suggestions of objectives that could be considered by our moderators.

When the objectives have been agreed to by our moderators, then it will be possible to put in place a mechanism that will permit achievement of the identified objectives.

A. G. Maisey · 29th November 2009, 07:47 PM

This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion.

It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn.

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

At the present time we have a unique opportunity:-

we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy.

I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass.

The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve.

I have stated what I think these objectives should be.

Are my objectives adequate?

Or are they inadequate?

Do they need to be changed?

Do they need to be added to?

We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination.

The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective.

Now is the time to do that.

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

Jeff D · 29th November 2009, 08:43 PM

Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members.

Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts.

Thanks
Jeff

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2009, 09:54 AM

Thanks for your further input, Jeff.

I'm trying to encourage our members to move on from proposing remedies and identifying problems to the identification of what we wish to achieve, ie, objectives.

You have proposed something that could well be a useful and valid solution, but it is not an objective.

If we look at your proposals, perhaps these could be framed as objectives :-

1)--- that any items posted for comment and that the owner intends to offer for sale in the near future be clearly identified as such

2)--- that the use of the Forum for commercial purposes be banned.

Here we are discussing only those things that affect the keris forum:- Keris Warung Kopi; we cannot presume to attempt to enforce our views on the other Forums.

Once we establish what we wish to achieve we can then hope that the management of this Forum will put in place a mechanism that will will assist in the achievement of our identified objectives.

This mechanism could well incorporate your suggestions.

BluErf · 30th November 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...

Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application.

Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment.

...

Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

In my humble opinion, if some policies don't work as well as expected after implementation, or is even detrimental to the forum due to some unforeseen reasons, they should be subject to review. The only question is how they can be put up for review. I don't think any policy can be perfect from the start and stay relevant/unchanged over long periods.

Rick · 30th November 2009, 07:11 PM

I understand your concerns Kai Wee; the last thing we want to do is kill this place .

Input please guys.

There are changes coming to Swap as well .

After the changes are in place if you have a problem you'll have to talk to a Moderator .

This thread is it for input .

Rick

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2009, 09:42 PM

I agree completely Kai Wee, however, after the present upcoming changes have been made, we're back to where we were before this discussion was opened up:- Forum policies are a matter for management, and no discussion will be entered into in public.

This discussion is unique, in that we have the opportunity to give our views to management and those views will be taken into consideration in the formulation of any new policies.

As is the case in any type of organisation, policy must be under continual review, and must be reframed as the environment changes, and again, as in any organisation, this is one of the duties of management.

Failure to maintain adequate policy can result in an orgainsation losing its viability. That is what our current discussion is about:- the maintenance of the relevance and viability of our facility for open discussion of the keris --- and management is listening to us.

Lets grab the opportunity with both hands and make the most of it.

Rick · 3rd December 2009, 01:19 AM

What ?
No more input, suggestions ???
If you haven't already spoken please do .

30th November 2009, 07:11 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,366	I understand your concerns Kai Wee; the last thing we want to do is kill this place . Input please guys. There are changes coming to Swap as well . After the changes are in place if you have a problem you'll have to talk to a Moderator . This thread is it for input . Rick Last edited by Rick; 30th November 2009 at 07:22 PM.

26th November 2009, 08:13 PM	#1
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	beat me by a few seconds, david. thanks.

26th November 2009, 10:01 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, I deal. Have done so for almost as long as I've collected keris --- 50 something years. Since about 1977 I've dealt internationally; used to do it with letters and photos, now I do it with my website. I think that most keris aligned people who frequent the E.E.W. site already know this. If it is deemed desireable to identify those of us who deal, it would suggest that a group mailing go out to all members so that a data base can be established, and that all new members should be required to ID themselves as dealers if in fact they are. Personally, I feel that it is not so much the fact that somebody deals that is what should be addressed, as the use of a specific posting for commercial purposes. Yes, possibly the membership should be made aware of who the dealers are, but more important they should be made aware of an item posted for comment that will be offered for sale in the near future. We now have what I believe to be a good cross sectional representation of members opinions. There has been a lot of very valid comment. I would suggest that now we have a general direction, specific objectives of any changes in rules should be identified. To my way of thinking there are two overall objectives:- 1) --- to identify all unethical dealers 2) --- to give the swap forum back to pure collectors Perhaps we could now have some suggestions of objectives that could be considered by our moderators. When the objectives have been agreed to by our moderators, then it will be possible to put in place a mechanism that will permit achievement of the identified objectives.

29th November 2009, 07:47 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	This thread has drawn a lot of interest, and a number of people have come forward and stated an opinion. It is my firm conviction that the management of this site will act to improve this facility and will put in place some revised policies in order to keep the character of the site as it was originally intended:- a place for collectors to exchange information and to learn. Once those new policies are in place I am certain that management will not enter into any discussion on either the new policies or upon their application. Once any new policies are in place there will be no further opportunity for comment. At the present time we have a unique opportunity:- we, the membership of this Forum, have been permitted to state our views in this matter, and to assist management in the formulation of policy. I most sincerely advise that we do not let this opportunity pass. The time has come for us to let management know what we want any changes in policy to do, in other words to state what we believe the objectives of change in policy should seek to achieve. I have stated what I think these objectives should be. Are my objectives adequate? Or are they inadequate? Do they need to be changed? Do they need to be added to? We cannot get to a new place unless we identify our destination. The way to do that is to formulate a clear and achieveable objective. Now is the time to do that. Once management has taken its decision and acted it will be too late to change anything.

29th November 2009, 08:43 PM	#4
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Apparently I was too cryptic before. Let me explain what I would like to see as this affects the entire board. I am not too familiar with the Keris forum, but have noticed the same behavior on the other forums with the same detrimental effect. It is clear some forumites don't mind being pumped for information, some do. A sub-forum where all the contributors know that the object is, or will be for sale would avoid any confusion and subsequent hard feelings. All who would like to contribute can, those who don't can avoid the threads. It should lessen the work load for the moderators as they will not have to be constantly policing the threads to warn, ban, lock, or delete the offending threads and members. Anyone using the other forums for commercial purposes could simply be banned and their entire thread deleted. We can all help police the site, bring the offenders to the attention of a moderator, then ZAP, they and their thread are gone. I personally would like to see a one year statute of limitations on the object. It won't have to happen too often for the message to get through. We can then get back to the sharing of information as a group of like minded enthusiasts. Thanks Jeff

30th November 2009, 09:54 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Thanks for your further input, Jeff. I'm trying to encourage our members to move on from proposing remedies and identifying problems to the identification of what we wish to achieve, ie, objectives. You have proposed something that could well be a useful and valid solution, but it is not an objective. If we look at your proposals, perhaps these could be framed as objectives :- 1)--- that any items posted for comment and that the owner intends to offer for sale in the near future be clearly identified as such 2)--- that the use of the Forum for commercial purposes be banned. Here we are discussing only those things that affect the keris forum:- Keris Warung Kopi; we cannot presume to attempt to enforce our views on the other Forums. Once we establish what we wish to achieve we can then hope that the management of this Forum will put in place a mechanism that will will assist in the achievement of our identified objectives. This mechanism could well incorporate your suggestions.

30th November 2009, 09:42 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	I agree completely Kai Wee, however, after the present upcoming changes have been made, we're back to where we were before this discussion was opened up:- Forum policies are a matter for management, and no discussion will be entered into in public. This discussion is unique, in that we have the opportunity to give our views to management and those views will be taken into consideration in the formulation of any new policies. As is the case in any type of organisation, policy must be under continual review, and must be reframed as the environment changes, and again, as in any organisation, this is one of the duties of management. Failure to maintain adequate policy can result in an orgainsation losing its viability. That is what our current discussion is about:- the maintenance of the relevance and viability of our facility for open discussion of the keris --- and management is listening to us. Lets grab the opportunity with both hands and make the most of it.

3rd December 2009, 01:19 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,366	What ? No more input, suggestions ??? If you haven't already spoken please do .