Turkish Yatagan. Need help, translate the text.

Gess · 26th November 2009, 10:45 AM

If you engage in serious debate, then we must look wider.
1. Owner wrote about himself on the blade. I do not think that he will assign a rank of "AGHA".
2. Yataghan obviously expensive. On the handle there were traces of gold, silver and frames for precious stones. Such nominal Yataghan could afford a rich, respectable man.
3. Year 1858! Turkey is involved in the war. Many weapons, not expensive . Who could spend a lot of money on such a subject?...
Regards,
Gess.

I was late with my post. Appeared respected Zifir and responded.
Please! Write to the final text, including all amendments.

P.S. Alemdar (a rank in janissary corps) - the standard-bearer?

TVV · 26th November 2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gess

If you engage in serious debate, then we must look wider.
1. Owner wrote about himself on the blade. I do not think that he will assign a rank of "AGHA".

Actually, Agha was assigned quite often after the owner's name on blades. I am attaching a quick scan from Astvatsaturian's book on Turkish arms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gess

2. Yataghan obviously expensive. On the handle there were traces of gold, silver and frames for precious stones. Such nominal Yataghan could afford a rich, respectable man.

Obviously whoever comissioned the yataghan was not poor, but it is common for Western Balkan yataghans of the 19th century to be richly decorated with walruss ivory hilts with corals ans semi-precious stones. This would not have been beyond the means of a large Muslim landowner, of which there were a few per village.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gess

3. Year 1858! Turkey is involved in the war. Many weapons, not expensive . Who could spend a lot of money on such a subject?...
Regards,
Gess. :

This is an interesting observation, as the yataghan looks to be from the Western Balkans. It may have belonged to an Ottoman irregular who participated in the war with Serbia and Montenegro. However, based on my observations on the weapons of Ottoman irregulars from the war of 1877-78, they certainly did not experience problems in equipping themselves with lavishly decorated arms, and sometimes even with the most modern weapons available, such as Winchester repeating rifles, etc. Unfortunately therefore, it is impossible to determine the rank of a weapon owner based on richness of decoration.

Gess, do not get me wrong - this is a very nice yataghan in great condition and most of us here would love to have it. I know I will. But without provenance, it is impossible to tell whether it belonged to a famous historical figure or just a common bashi-bazouk.

Best regards,
Teodor

Zifir · 27th November 2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gess

If you engage in serious debate, then we must look wider.
1. Owner wrote about himself on the blade. I do not think that he will assign a rank of "AGHA".
2. Yataghan obviously expensive. On the handle there were traces of gold, silver and frames for precious stones. Such nominal Yataghan could afford a rich, respectable man.
3. Year 1858! Turkey is involved in the war. Many weapons, not expensive . Who could spend a lot of money on such a subject?...
Regards,
Gess.

I was late with my post. Appeared respected Zifir and responded.
Please! Write to the final text, including all amendments.

P.S. Alemdar (a rank in janissary corps) - the standard-bearer?

Yes, Alemdar (or sometimes bayrakdar) means standard-bearer.

zalmoxis · 27th November 2009, 06:20 PM

I noticed that the inlay on my yataghan looks exactly like the one in the books. Can somebody tell me what is the year? Some marks look similar with the ones in the book.
Thanks

TVV · 27th November 2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalmoxis

I noticed that the inlay on my yataghan looks exactly like the one in the books. Can somebody tell me what is the year? Some marks look similar with the ones in the book.
Thanks

The numbers are 122, so if there was a 0 imitted at the end, that would be 1220 Hijri or 1805-1806 Gregorian.
Regards,
Teodor

zalmoxis · 27th November 2009, 08:14 PM

Thanks man.

Gess · 4th December 2009, 10:37 AM

Thank you very much: Dom, Zifir and (of course) TVV - Teodor!!!
I do not expect that this Yataghan belonged to famous historical figure.
Through discussion and excellent translations, I think it belongs to one of the last Janissaries. AGHA title may be - just respectful, but the title Alemdar - without a doubt Janissary. 1858 allows me to think so, for 8 years - Sultan was unable to destroy them all, and in another 20 years (1876-78), this would certainly bashi-bazouk.
Regards.

26th November 2009, 10:45 AM	#1
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	If you engage in serious debate, then we must look wider. 1. Owner wrote about himself on the blade. I do not think that he will assign a rank of "AGHA". 2. Yataghan obviously expensive. On the handle there were traces of gold, silver and frames for precious stones. Such nominal Yataghan could afford a rich, respectable man. 3. Year 1858! Turkey is involved in the war. Many weapons, not expensive . Who could spend a lot of money on such a subject?... Regards, Gess. I was late with my post. Appeared respected Zifir and responded. Please! Write to the final text, including all amendments. P.S. Alemdar (a rank in janissary corps) - the standard-bearer? Last edited by Gess; 26th November 2009 at 11:58 AM.

27th November 2009, 06:20 PM	#4
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Yataghan maks. I noticed that the inlay on my yataghan looks exactly like the one in the books. Can somebody tell me what is the year? Some marks look similar with the ones in the book. Thanks Attached Images

27th November 2009, 08:14 PM	#6
zalmoxis Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: GA USA Posts: 76	Thanks man.

4th December 2009, 10:37 AM	#7
Gess Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 44	Thank you very much: Dom, Zifir and (of course) TVV - Teodor!!! I do not expect that this Yataghan belonged to famous historical figure. Through discussion and excellent translations, I think it belongs to one of the last Janissaries. AGHA title may be - just respectful, but the title Alemdar - without a doubt Janissary. 1858 allows me to think so, for 8 years - Sultan was unable to destroy them all, and in another 20 years (1876-78), this would certainly bashi-bazouk. Regards.