Keris Sundang pictures for sharing or comment

[Spunjer]

stunning!
just thinking out loud, who's to say back in the old days this is exactly how the "twisted core" krises came to be: just a bunch of experiments like what you're doing now...

[Rick]

Would that mean that Pamor had meaning for the Moro Peoples ?

Also Bre, shouldn't the asang asang have tails that go up under the hilt wrapping ?

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by Rick

Would that mean that Pamor had meaning for the Moro Peoples ?

did i just open up another door?

...but then again perhaps it was done for aesthetic purposes, since with a blade looking like this, coupled with a decorated hilt, it would look sharp as heck. or the original owner has direct indo ties

[brekele]

Hi Rick, I was not thinking about context of the pamor and moro peoples, but more in the talent of the young pande for making new style of the keris, skill and his art work.

What is asang asang, is it name of Keris Sundang's ricikan?
Honestly I dont know it. So, sorry ...cannot answer your question.

[Battara]

What wonderful work!

Asang-asang means the clamp where the hilt and the blade meet. I think it is a Sulu PI word.

[Sajen]

Just beautiful!

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

did i just open up another door?

Well,
Did you ?

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

Originally Posted by Rick

....
Also Bre, shouldn't the asang asang have tails that go up under the hilt wrapping ?

.... not necessarily. It depends which aspects of the asang-asang 'evolution' one wants to emulate, as they were developed for practical reasons.

Best,

[Rick]

All the more practical if the clamps hold the gangya to the sword and the sword in turn to the hilt ...

[David]

I find it really interesting that this first sundang posted here is currently being sold on eBay simply called KERIS SUNDANG LUK 3 KRIS MORO with no explanation that it is a brand new blade made in Madura. The title even dares to imply that the piece is actually Moro.
This seems passively deceptive at best and i can't help but feel that this forum was in some ways pumped for information on how to make this deception finer. This doesn't please me one bit Brekele and i'm not done with this yet!

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by David

I find it really interesting that this first sundang posted here is currently being sold on eBay simply called KERIS SUNDANG LUK 3 KRIS MORO with no explanation that it is a brand new blade made in Madura. The title even dares to imply that the piece is actually Moro.
This seems passively deceptive at best and i can't help but feel that this forum was in some ways pumped for information on how to make this deception finer. This doesn't please me one bit Brekele and i'm not done with this yet!

Originally Posted by brekele

Hi Rick, I was not thinking about context of the pamor and moro peoples, but more in the talent of the young pande for making new style of the keris, skill and his art work.

I don't know if the listing has been edited David but it does say made in Indonesia???
Passive deception...maybe...maybe not...maybe just a use of key words?
I don't really see a deception, only an exhibition of 4 different style for the forum to view, all made by a local young artisan, obviously they can't be eaten so offering the artwork seems practical...I don't see any information being bled from anyone with leading or probing questions....
What the real issue would be is an open discussion on a currently advertised item and the discussion remains open???......just my impartial 2 cents worth...

Gav

[Paul Duffy]

I am disappointed to spend time reading about an attempt to gather interest in a piece that is at best "poorly made",and which is attempting to exploit the Forum.
Wasn't this issue discussed recently.

[David]

Originally Posted by freebooter

I don't know if the listing has been edited David but it does say made in Indonesia???

Well Gav, i do make mistakes sometimes...however, i read completely through the description 4 times before posting this and while i probably can't prove it i am fairly certain that this little location disclosure was added sometime while i slept. It would have also been nice if he also added "Newly Made" to the location. These keris have an added feeling of age about them that might make the uneducated buyer think they are antique. Of course "Buyer Beware" always applies, but if i am going to be asked for comments on these blades and give my opinions on how they might look more "authentic" then i expect the seller to use FULL disclosure when bringing them to auction. As Kai Wee has stated, perhaps in the future silence would be best.
I would disagree with Paul. I don't think they are poorly made at all. They are a product i think the maker can be quite proud of. What really annoys me is that they are not proud enough of them to say "I made this...just yesterday!" Unfortunately in the keris world there seem to be a distain amongst some collectors for the new. But if no one is interested in new keris art it will simply recess into obscurity as it was about to do before it's revival in the latter part of the 20th century. That would be a great shame. These new work need to be accepted and appreciated on their own merits. There are pandai working today that are doing incredible and exceptional things in the keris arts technically, as good if not better than any empu of the past. But some of them are afraid that if they present their work as new no one will buy it.
The danger i see with these particular works is that it is the first time i have seen new "Moro-style" kris made is manner. Even stated "Made in Indonesia" is not enough because they might convince someone that they are old Malay sundang (which i believe is the intention). Considering the blade treatments no one who collects Moro is going to be fooled, but for me this auction needs full disclosure or it is indeed a deception by omission.