Weird numbers on a shamshir

Jim McDougall · 27th October 2009, 09:49 PM

Locker combination?

Seriously though, as noted these numbers seem out of line and inconsistant with armouries or inventories, which typically had some type of stamp with symbol or marking it seems. This blade seems very much like European cavalry sabre blades of early 19th century, and as is well known, European officers favored these Ottoman style 'mameluke' hilts. It seems that this period would be in close proximity with talismanic numerology which was in varying degree popular through the 18th century, and well known earlier as well. Perhaps these numbers are used in such a cryptic arrangement with this being a European officers sword.

Alternatively, the Ottoman army was becoming quite European influenced during the 19th century, perhaps this might be a sabre with a European blade from that circumstance.

Best regards,
Jim

ariel · 27th October 2009, 10:34 PM

Interestingly, the crossguard is made of iron, while the Ottomans favoured brass or ( in the Arabian parts of the Empire) they used a lot of silver.

Michael Blalock · 28th October 2009, 08:56 PM

Maybe an early form of Sudoko. It does have all nine digits. Talismanic.

Royston · 30th October 2009, 05:56 PM

How about a date 12-3-56
I.E 12th March 1856

Followed by a 4 digit armoury number 8974

Roy

Jim McDougall · 30th October 2009, 07:29 PM

Bonk!!!!

Uh..Royston, that makes too much sense!!! Theres gotta be something mystical here .
Well done!!!
All the best,
Jim

Rick · 30th October 2009, 08:18 PM

Then it's just coincidence that the numbers 1 to 9 are in there with no repeats .

Atlantia · 30th October 2009, 09:45 PM

I would think its just a simple failure on the part of the engraver to understand the numerals.
In the same way that westerners wear T-Shirts with japanese logos on them that turn out ot be gobbledegook, and Japanese teenagers wear ones with 'english' logos that range from misspelling to downright rude.
I would think the maker wanted to add a European inscription and something went wrong.
That said, I think the numerals look very early 19thC or earlier.

27th October 2009, 09:49 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Locker combination? Seriously though, as noted these numbers seem out of line and inconsistant with armouries or inventories, which typically had some type of stamp with symbol or marking it seems. This blade seems very much like European cavalry sabre blades of early 19th century, and as is well known, European officers favored these Ottoman style 'mameluke' hilts. It seems that this period would be in close proximity with talismanic numerology which was in varying degree popular through the 18th century, and well known earlier as well. Perhaps these numbers are used in such a cryptic arrangement with this being a European officers sword. Alternatively, the Ottoman army was becoming quite European influenced during the 19th century, perhaps this might be a sabre with a European blade from that circumstance. Best regards, Jim

27th October 2009, 10:34 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Interestingly, the crossguard is made of iron, while the Ottomans favoured brass or ( in the Arabian parts of the Empire) they used a lot of silver.

28th October 2009, 08:56 PM	#3
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Maybe an early form of Sudoko. It does have all nine digits. Talismanic.

30th October 2009, 05:56 PM	#4
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	How about a date 12-3-56 I.E 12th March 1856 Followed by a 4 digit armoury number 8974 Roy

30th October 2009, 07:29 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,196	Bonk!!!! Uh..Royston, that makes too much sense!!! Theres gotta be something mystical here . Well done!!! All the best, Jim

30th October 2009, 08:18 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Then it's just coincidence that the numbers 1 to 9 are in there with no repeats .

30th October 2009, 09:45 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I would think its just a simple failure on the part of the engraver to understand the numerals. In the same way that westerners wear T-Shirts with japanese logos on them that turn out ot be gobbledegook, and Japanese teenagers wear ones with 'english' logos that range from misspelling to downright rude. I would think the maker wanted to add a European inscription and something went wrong. That said, I think the numerals look very early 19thC or earlier.