GUNONG

Conogre · 15th May 2005, 06:58 PM

The gunongs were allegedly assasin's weapons, easily concealed in the flowing clothing, but later on they became prestige pieces i their own right with sizes meeting or approaching those of the battle keris.
The coin used for the guard looks like it may have been an American silver dollar, the type the had the eagle with a small sun with radiating symbolic rays,
Mike

tom hyle · 15th May 2005, 08:30 PM

I've heard that, too, about the gunong being for concealment, much as it is said of aikuchi, sgian dhu, and many other smallish guardless or minimally guarded daggers. There's no doubt it can be so worn, but whether that was the usual thing is in the realm of folklore AFAIK, at the moment (not that there's anything wrong with that), and whether the wearers generally considered it concealed or merely tucked away, as for us with pocket knives, is also probably open to interpretation. Most of the sword-sized gunongs I've seen were Lumad, and the Moro ones probably not very old. My Visayan one, on the other hand, has about a 7 or 8 inch blade, and seems c. 19 or very early 20th (spiral horn handle with a supesimplified pommel like one we've seen on a varient bathead sword, horn guard, angle of tang in handle offset to centralise cutting angle of forward edge (as on many old talibons)), but the weird and Spainish/Luzon feature on it is a full length tang. Some Moro ones are tiny, and may even be miniatures (2" overall length....). I think that miniature knives might be a SE Asian artform, BTW, and not neccessarily anything to do with foreigners originally; I see a lot of them, and some seem quite old. Some are jewelry, while others are just tiny.

nechesh · 15th May 2005, 09:52 PM

I also read the concealed weapon suggestion on Federico's site, but he opens that section by saying that in fact little is actually written on these blades. Just to put size into perspective, the blade is 6 1/4" with an overall length of 10". I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

Spunjer · 15th May 2005, 10:51 PM

that's a wonderful gunong indeed, nechesh. i saw it during gun day in kentucky.

Justin · 16th May 2005, 01:44 PM

Tom:interesting note about the sgian duhbs,there has never been a recorded act of violence involving one,except for an incident involving a 6 year old prince throwing one across the court room in a temper tantrum!

As for the gunong there is a whole lot of info that seems to be missing,there seem to be multiple disticnt forms some of which feel very very lethal but it seems most of them end up in the WW2 catagory.Yours, I feel was probably made sometime just before that maybe the 20s-30s maybe a little earlier even,but maybe someone more knowledgeable about Moro weapons can help you more.

Bill · 16th May 2005, 07:00 PM

guess, old blade & sheath, silver work done about 25 years ago, Maranao

Ian · 16th May 2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

During the US occupation of the Philippines in the first half of the 20th C., the Philippine coins were stamped "United States of America" and had a Philippine form of the eagle stamped on some of them. The coin probably dates from the period of US occupation.

Ian.

Battara · 16th May 2005, 10:46 PM

Spunjer and I both saw that puppy here in Louisville. It is an older piece and nice. The coin is silver and Mexican in origin, going back to the mid-last quarter of the 19th century with the rays of the sun and a cap. These coins were common just before the turn of the century in many Spanish colonies.

nechesh · 16th May 2005, 11:27 PM

Jose, thanks for the addition varification on the coin's origin. I'm not sure about the silver work on the sheath, but i think the ferrule is probably original to the blade.
On a related note i wondered what opinions might be on the example below. It is most probably from Batangas and i assume it was meant for export, but it seems a high quality than similar "tourist" gunongs from the area. The sheath is horn (on both sides; some of these have wood on the back side) as is the hilt. the ferrule and cross piece are brass and there are inlays of M.O.P. with a square "button" of M.O.P. at the pommel.As you can see, both the hilt and the sheath have okir like carvings. I wonder if it is even proper to refer to it as a gunong. Does anyone know if this blade form was used traditionally in that area or do they just turn them out for export? This one seems a bit older than similar examples i have seen (and small - blade 5 3/4", overall almost 11")but i would still imagine it is from the second half of the 20thC. Any ideas?

tom hyle · 17th May 2005, 12:17 AM

It's a gunong. Not real old, I agree. The blade with its tapered width is a form I see on old-seeming pieces. It appears to be in the handle backwards, though this is not real uncommon, and as it is a fairly symmetrical example, not terribly affecting.....

16th May 2005, 11:27 PM	#9
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Jose, thanks for the addition varification on the coin's origin. I'm not sure about the silver work on the sheath, but i think the ferrule is probably original to the blade. On a related note i wondered what opinions might be on the example below. It is most probably from Batangas and i assume it was meant for export, but it seems a high quality than similar "tourist" gunongs from the area. The sheath is horn (on both sides; some of these have wood on the back side) as is the hilt. the ferrule and cross piece are brass and there are inlays of M.O.P. with a square "button" of M.O.P. at the pommel.As you can see, both the hilt and the sheath have okir like carvings. I wonder if it is even proper to refer to it as a gunong. Does anyone know if this blade form was used traditionally in that area or do they just turn them out for export? This one seems a bit older than similar examples i have seen (and small - blade 5 3/4", overall almost 11")but i would still imagine it is from the second half of the 20thC. Any ideas? Attached Images

15th May 2005, 06:58 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The gunongs were allegedly assasin's weapons, easily concealed in the flowing clothing, but later on they became prestige pieces i their own right with sizes meeting or approaching those of the battle keris. The coin used for the guard looks like it may have been an American silver dollar, the type the had the eagle with a small sun with radiating symbolic rays, Mike

15th May 2005, 08:30 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I've heard that, too, about the gunong being for concealment, much as it is said of aikuchi, sgian dhu, and many other smallish guardless or minimally guarded daggers. There's no doubt it can be so worn, but whether that was the usual thing is in the realm of folklore AFAIK, at the moment (not that there's anything wrong with that), and whether the wearers generally considered it concealed or merely tucked away, as for us with pocket knives, is also probably open to interpretation. Most of the sword-sized gunongs I've seen were Lumad, and the Moro ones probably not very old. My Visayan one, on the other hand, has about a 7 or 8 inch blade, and seems c. 19 or very early 20th (spiral horn handle with a supesimplified pommel like one we've seen on a varient bathead sword, horn guard, angle of tang in handle offset to centralise cutting angle of forward edge (as on many old talibons)), but the weird and Spainish/Luzon feature on it is a full length tang. Some Moro ones are tiny, and may even be miniatures (2" overall length....). I think that miniature knives might be a SE Asian artform, BTW, and not neccessarily anything to do with foreigners originally; I see a lot of them, and some seem quite old. Some are jewelry, while others are just tiny.

15th May 2005, 09:52 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I also read the concealed weapon suggestion on Federico's site, but he opens that section by saying that in fact little is actually written on these blades. Just to put size into perspective, the blade is 6 1/4" with an overall length of 10". I don't think the coin is U.S. currency. I do see the remains of an eagle on the other side, but it doesn't look like the kind i have seen on old U.S. coins. Also are the end letters "CA" but i still don't think this is a remnant of the word America. Rick (rsword) suggested a Mexican origin for the coin. I also wonder if this is not a replacement part.

15th May 2005, 10:51 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	that's a wonderful gunong indeed, nechesh. i saw it during gun day in kentucky.

16th May 2005, 01:44 PM	#5
Justin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 180	Tom:interesting note about the sgian duhbs,there has never been a recorded act of violence involving one,except for an incident involving a 6 year old prince throwing one across the court room in a temper tantrum! As for the gunong there is a whole lot of info that seems to be missing,there seem to be multiple disticnt forms some of which feel very very lethal but it seems most of them end up in the WW2 catagory.Yours, I feel was probably made sometime just before that maybe the 20s-30s maybe a little earlier even,but maybe someone more knowledgeable about Moro weapons can help you more.

16th May 2005, 07:00 PM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	guess, old blade & sheath, silver work done about 25 years ago, Maranao

16th May 2005, 10:46 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Spunjer and I both saw that puppy here in Louisville. It is an older piece and nice. The coin is silver and Mexican in origin, going back to the mid-last quarter of the 19th century with the rays of the sun and a cap. These coins were common just before the turn of the century in many Spanish colonies.

17th May 2005, 12:17 AM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	It's a gunong. Not real old, I agree. The blade with its tapered width is a form I see on old-seeming pieces. It appears to be in the handle backwards, though this is not real uncommon, and as it is a fairly symmetrical example, not terribly affecting.....