Indonesian Riddle - Who knows what this is?

Sajen · 30th September 2009, 06:49 PM

Hello Erik,

the blade look from the shape like a Mandau blade, but only from the shape. There is no concave/convex at the blade. Anyway, my guess that this is a Borneo blade. Maybe a Banjarmasin sword? It is also possible that the golden and silverinlays from different times, the golden inlays seems to be hindu, see the hindu cross.
Let us see what the experts will tell. BTW, very interesting and nice blade!

sajen

erikscollectables · 30th September 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Erik,

the blade look from the shape like a Mandau blade, but only from the shape. There is no concave/convex at the blade. Anyway, my guess that this is a Borneo blade. Maybe a Banjarmasin sword? It is also possible that the golden and silverinlays from different times, the golden inlays seems to be hindu, see the hindu cross.
Let us see what the experts will tell. BTW, very interesting and nice blade!

sajen

Interesting remark about the different period with the inlays - there does seem to be a difference in workmanship too.

David · 30th September 2009, 07:20 PM

Well, i don't know about anyone else, but it sure is a weapon i would want in my collection.

I have to agree that the swastika design seems to be Hindu while there are obvious references to Islam as well in the silver so the to inlays may have been done at different times.

fearn · 30th September 2009, 07:42 PM

Looking at it some more, I'm not so sure that the writings were done at two different times. Basically, the design layout is too unified, and I don't see evidence that one artist scraped off the design of another in order to make room for his design, which the artist would need to, given that the Hindu and Muslim motifs are mixed..

What I'd suggest is that the blade might in fact be talismanic in some way. Since magical objects often blend faiths (at least in Europe), I think the combination of Muslim and Hindu religious symbology may have been deliberate. The individual motifs may have even been done by different artists, but there was a single design overall, and the blade decorations were put together all at once.

Perhaps it has been rehilted, too?

Best,

F

erikscollectables · 30th September 2009, 07:49 PM

What do you think the use would have been with this amount of talismanic script? Ceremonial only or also fighting? (the point was chipped off but not recently)

I also go for rehilted but long (maybe more than 100 years) ago or so as the current hilt also has a lot of age.

Erik

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Looking at it some more, I'm not so sure that the writings were done at two different times. Basically, the design layout is too unified, and I don't see evidence that one artist scraped off the design of another in order to make room for his design, which the artist would need to, given that the Hindu and Muslim motifs are mixed..

What I'd suggest is that the blade might in fact be talismanic in some way. Since magical objects often blend faiths (at least in Europe), I think the combination of Muslim and Hindu religious symbology may have been deliberate. The individual motifs may have even been done by different artists, but there was a single design overall, and the blade decorations were put together all at once.

Perhaps it has been rehilted, too?

Best,

F

fearn · 30th September 2009, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikscollectables

What do you think the use would have been with this amount of talismanic script? Ceremonial only or also fighting? (the point was chipped off but not recently)

I also go for rehilted but long (maybe more than 100 years) ago or so as the current hilt also has a lot of age.

Erik

Not sure about the amount of talismanic stuff. My guess would be superstition (i.e. the owner or gift-giver wanted to make sure this blade was "lucky"), but I don't know enough about Indonesian shamanism (whatever the local version is) to know whether this would be appropriate as a spiritual/ceremonial weapon.

Was it used? You can tell us. There is that chipped tip, but from the photos, I can't tell whether the blade has been reground, or whether it was never used. Right now, I don't see any signs of use damage (other than the tip), and absent that, it's hard to tell whether it was ever used.

Best,

F

Lew · 30th September 2009, 09:34 PM

Here is one I owned in 2001 it also had inscriptions on the blade.

asomotif · 30th September 2009, 10:23 PM

Hello Erik,

Interesting blade. Where do you keep finding them

Maybe this weapon was made for a muslim living on Borneo ?

Lews example also shows some borneo influence, but Sumatra springs to mind as well on that one.

erikscollectables · 1st October 2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

Here is one I owned in 2001 it also had inscriptions on the blade.

Do you still have a photo of the inscriptions that it had?
What was the attribution of your piece?

Erik

erikscollectables · 30th September 2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, i don't know about anyone else, but it sure is a weapon i would want in my collection.

Thanks, that is what I thought also the first time I saw it and it took me a long time to get it

30th September 2009, 09:34 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here is one I owned in 2001 it also had inscriptions on the blade. Attached Images

30th September 2009, 06:49 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Hello Erik, the blade look from the shape like a Mandau blade, but only from the shape. There is no concave/convex at the blade. Anyway, my guess that this is a Borneo blade. Maybe a Banjarmasin sword? It is also possible that the golden and silverinlays from different times, the golden inlays seems to be hindu, see the hindu cross. Let us see what the experts will tell. BTW, very interesting and nice blade! sajen

30th September 2009, 07:20 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well, i don't know about anyone else, but it sure is a weapon i would want in my collection. I have to agree that the swastika design seems to be Hindu while there are obvious references to Islam as well in the silver so the to inlays may have been done at different times.

30th September 2009, 07:42 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Looking at it some more, I'm not so sure that the writings were done at two different times. Basically, the design layout is too unified, and I don't see evidence that one artist scraped off the design of another in order to make room for his design, which the artist would need to, given that the Hindu and Muslim motifs are mixed.. What I'd suggest is that the blade might in fact be talismanic in some way. Since magical objects often blend faiths (at least in Europe), I think the combination of Muslim and Hindu religious symbology may have been deliberate. The individual motifs may have even been done by different artists, but there was a single design overall, and the blade decorations were put together all at once. Perhaps it has been rehilted, too? Best, F

30th September 2009, 10:23 PM	#8
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Hello Erik, Interesting blade. Where do you keep finding them Maybe this weapon was made for a muslim living on Borneo ? Lews example also shows some borneo influence, but Sumatra springs to mind as well on that one.