Question about barrel stamping

fahnenschmied · 30th September 2009, 03:30 AM

Top of barrel. Not clear but you can see the rings where it goes from octagonal to round. There is a brass based front sight near the muzzle...

kahnjar1 · 30th September 2009, 05:18 AM

Think you need (if possible) to get a look at the underneath of the barrel. The style looks very British to me, but the mark you show says something else. The proof marks (if any) will tell the story.
Regards Stuart

cornelistromp · 30th September 2009, 07:31 AM

Hello,

the Barrel is from the second half of the 17th C and shortened.
(probably made by Matthias Kalthoff Copenhagen, Denmark.)
The lock the all mounts (also the tricker guard) and stock are later from around 1800, also the rounded top shape of the butt points me to northern Europe.

regards from Holland

fahnenschmied · 3rd October 2009, 04:39 AM

Many thanks for the reply! Is this Matthius Kalthoff the son of Peter Kalthoff? I might have to look about for some of his other work. It would be very interesting if I knew if this little gun (or parts of it) had been around here for a long time...in this area there was almost no Europeans living until 1710. Most of the original colonists here in New Bern came from Switzerland and southern Germany. However, none of the old letters from the Swiss colonists, nor John Lawson's books, mentions guns in any detail. I have always wondered if any of the colonist brought any from "home" or if they purchased them in England, where they left from. Perhaps I can try to track down just who donated this thing, but I think it was aquired in the 60s... Usually folks have everything wrong- - The musket supposedly used in the Revolution plainly has an 1808 stamped on the lockplate, or the "Gun used by my grandfather in the Civil War" is a plain old Belgian rabbit-eared double of 1880s vintage.
I cannot find any good photos online of the sort of guard I think this one was modified from. I helped a friend inlet a gun he was building, a copy of a French trade fusil from 1720 - 30; the guard looked much like this one must have when new. It could have been modified to look just like this one, in fact, its what caught my eye about this gun in the first place. I just don't know how far back that style of guard goes...
Thanks again to everybody who has given input - quite an amazing wealth of knowledge here!

Dave

kahnjar1 · 3rd October 2009, 05:03 AM

Hi again Dave,
MATHIAS KALTHOFF is also mentioned in the same book that the Peter K marks are shown in. No mention is made as to relationship of the two, but the information on Mathias is that he worked in Copenhagen 1646 - 1672 so the dates they were both working are the same except for 1 year. Maybe brothers?
Regards Stuart

pbleed · 5th October 2009, 12:28 AM

Wow. This has been an amazing read. Thank you all

Jim McDougall · 5th October 2009, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbleed

Wow. This has been an amazing read. Thank you all

I totally agree! Thanks guys, very nice work on the research on this, its great to learn more on these guns.

Peter, hello! Its good to see you here again!!!

All best regards,
Jim

30th September 2009, 03:30 AM	#1
fahnenschmied Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12	parting shot... Top of barrel. Not clear but you can see the rings where it goes from octagonal to round. There is a brass based front sight near the muzzle... Attached Images

5th October 2009, 12:28 AM	#6
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	what a thread! Wow. This has been an amazing read. Thank you all

30th September 2009, 05:18 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Think you need (if possible) to get a look at the underneath of the barrel. The style looks very British to me, but the mark you show says something else. The proof marks (if any) will tell the story. Regards Stuart

30th September 2009, 07:31 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hello, the Barrel is from the second half of the 17th C and shortened. (probably made by Matthias Kalthoff Copenhagen, Denmark.) The lock the all mounts (also the tricker guard) and stock are later from around 1800, also the rounded top shape of the butt points me to northern Europe. regards from Holland

3rd October 2009, 04:39 AM	#4
fahnenschmied Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 12	Many thanks for the reply! Is this Matthius Kalthoff the son of Peter Kalthoff? I might have to look about for some of his other work. It would be very interesting if I knew if this little gun (or parts of it) had been around here for a long time...in this area there was almost no Europeans living until 1710. Most of the original colonists here in New Bern came from Switzerland and southern Germany. However, none of the old letters from the Swiss colonists, nor John Lawson's books, mentions guns in any detail. I have always wondered if any of the colonist brought any from "home" or if they purchased them in England, where they left from. Perhaps I can try to track down just who donated this thing, but I think it was aquired in the 60s... Usually folks have everything wrong- - The musket supposedly used in the Revolution plainly has an 1808 stamped on the lockplate, or the "Gun used by my grandfather in the Civil War" is a plain old Belgian rabbit-eared double of 1880s vintage. I cannot find any good photos online of the sort of guard I think this one was modified from. I helped a friend inlet a gun he was building, a copy of a French trade fusil from 1720 - 30; the guard looked much like this one must have when new. It could have been modified to look just like this one, in fact, its what caught my eye about this gun in the first place. I just don't know how far back that style of guard goes... Thanks again to everybody who has given input - quite an amazing wealth of knowledge here! Dave

3rd October 2009, 05:03 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Hi again Dave, MATHIAS KALTHOFF is also mentioned in the same book that the Peter K marks are shown in. No mention is made as to relationship of the two, but the information on Mathias is that he worked in Copenhagen 1646 - 1672 so the dates they were both working are the same except for 1 year. Maybe brothers? Regards Stuart