Tulwar Hilt Types

sabertasche · 15th September 2009, 07:20 AM

Hi all, I'm here in awe of all the wonderful discussion re talwar hilt forms. Forgive me for being absent, the usual work stuff has limited my abilities to participate. It will take me some time to digest all the info so many of you have contributed.

Jens, you asked if the pommel edge was roped and yes it is although it is not raised as if it was a separately applied decoration.

The flat pommel disked sword is very fine crystaline wooze, which I plan to lightly clean. It appears that based on Jen's observations it may be Sikh but I believe the key is in understanding the decorative components in context with the hilt form. This will take a few more books and experience in Indian art motifs. Of the bibliography that Jim mentioned, I only have #s 1 and 4. Perhaps I should invest in a book rather than blade?

I have no history on any of my talwars, #1 was bought because out of the 50-100 talwars to could choose from, it was the only one with a straight blade and decent scabbard. #2 was bought from the same source because the hilt was nicer than any others. There had to be at least 100 talwars to choose from, all covered in cosmolene, all for about $20.00 each - and we bought....2

I guess at the time I didn't what to get my hands dirty

#3 I paid very, very little for, it truely is a magnificent sword. The blade talks to me, it's quality is amazing especially when compared to the vast majority of blades that you see. If only I could understand what it is trying to tell me.

Cheers,

Greg

Gavin Nugent · 11th July 2010, 07:06 AM

better late than never, as promised, I will start listing a number of varients I have images of.

One to start.

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 11th July 2010, 09:34 AM

Some more, others to follow with some discussion when time permits.

Gav

Iain · 12th July 2010, 09:35 AM

Indian weapons are completely not my area, but I wanted to thank those that posted in this thread as I have found it very informative.

Having only had personal access to "munitions grade" tulwars I've never found them that interesting - perhaps because of the all metal construction and very uniform designs. However the examples posted in this thread - in addition to being beautiful - have really excited my interest to learn more about regional variations and the associated period history. I'm not usually interested in highly decorated or ornate pieces but the second example posted by Gav really strikes me as a wonderful combination of functionality and individualistic design.

Again many thanks to all for a fascinating topic!

Jens Nordlunde · 12th July 2010, 04:32 PM

Hi ISPN,
Yes there are many very interesting tulwar hilts you only have to find them, and 'encode' them

.

Gavin Nugent · 12th July 2010, 10:49 PM

Another beauty Jens, what I find most interesting is the manufacture, it seems from close examination there are about 8 parts both forged and braised together to create these hilts.
One could imagine picking and choosing the styles you want in a hilt and having it made for you and then according to budget having it embellished in copper, silver and golds.

Does anyone have documents pertaining to the manufacture of the hilts? I'd love to read it.

Gav

Jens Nordlunde · 14th July 2010, 04:27 PM

When it comes to the tulwar hilts there are a few things, which we should not forget.

Many hilts were made in series, and maybe the decoration as well. Some hilts were made after the customers wish and so would the decoration be. Our problem is, that we don’t have any indications of how many were made after the customers wish and how many were pre fabricated.

The pre fabricated hilts and the pre made decoration would, most likely, have been made according to the fashion used at the time and place where it was sold – even hilts sold in other parts of India could have been of this kind. However the custom made hilts and decorations can differ quite a bit from the first type – we will never know for sure.

These are some of the things, which makes it difficult to place a hilt with 100% certainty.

12th July 2010, 04:32 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi ISPN, Yes there are many very interesting tulwar hilts you only have to find them, and 'encode' them. Attached Images

12th July 2010, 10:49 PM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The hilts Another beauty Jens, what I find most interesting is the manufacture, it seems from close examination there are about 8 parts both forged and braised together to create these hilts. One could imagine picking and choosing the styles you want in a hilt and having it made for you and then according to budget having it embellished in copper, silver and golds. Does anyone have documents pertaining to the manufacture of the hilts? I'd love to read it. Gav Last edited by freebooter; 13th July 2010 at 01:17 AM.

15th September 2009, 07:20 AM	#1
sabertasche Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 149	Hi all, I'm here in awe of all the wonderful discussion re talwar hilt forms. Forgive me for being absent, the usual work stuff has limited my abilities to participate. It will take me some time to digest all the info so many of you have contributed. Jens, you asked if the pommel edge was roped and yes it is although it is not raised as if it was a separately applied decoration. The flat pommel disked sword is very fine crystaline wooze, which I plan to lightly clean. It appears that based on Jen's observations it may be Sikh but I believe the key is in understanding the decorative components in context with the hilt form. This will take a few more books and experience in Indian art motifs. Of the bibliography that Jim mentioned, I only have #s 1 and 4. Perhaps I should invest in a book rather than blade? I have no history on any of my talwars, #1 was bought because out of the 50-100 talwars to could choose from, it was the only one with a straight blade and decent scabbard. #2 was bought from the same source because the hilt was nicer than any others. There had to be at least 100 talwars to choose from, all covered in cosmolene, all for about $20.00 each - and we bought....2 I guess at the time I didn't what to get my hands dirty #3 I paid very, very little for, it truely is a magnificent sword. The blade talks to me, it's quality is amazing especially when compared to the vast majority of blades that you see. If only I could understand what it is trying to tell me. Cheers, Greg

11th July 2010, 07:06 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	As promised. better late than never, as promised, I will start listing a number of varients I have images of. One to start. Gav Attached Images

11th July 2010, 09:34 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Some more Some more, others to follow with some discussion when time permits. Gav Attached Images

12th July 2010, 09:35 AM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Indian weapons are completely not my area, but I wanted to thank those that posted in this thread as I have found it very informative. Having only had personal access to "munitions grade" tulwars I've never found them that interesting - perhaps because of the all metal construction and very uniform designs. However the examples posted in this thread - in addition to being beautiful - have really excited my interest to learn more about regional variations and the associated period history. I'm not usually interested in highly decorated or ornate pieces but the second example posted by Gav really strikes me as a wonderful combination of functionality and individualistic design. Again many thanks to all for a fascinating topic!

14th July 2010, 04:27 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	When it comes to the tulwar hilts there are a few things, which we should not forget. Many hilts were made in series, and maybe the decoration as well. Some hilts were made after the customers wish and so would the decoration be. Our problem is, that we don’t have any indications of how many were made after the customers wish and how many were pre fabricated. The pre fabricated hilts and the pre made decoration would, most likely, have been made according to the fashion used at the time and place where it was sold – even hilts sold in other parts of India could have been of this kind. However the custom made hilts and decorations can differ quite a bit from the first type – we will never know for sure. These are some of the things, which makes it difficult to place a hilt with 100% certainty.