18C ivory hilt

Bill · 2nd September 2009, 10:03 PM

finished on auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1182
WOW, didn't even get my final bid out
Rick should be a happy man with the one he has, though this one looks like a real oldie.

Sajen · 2nd September 2009, 11:27 PM

Indeed, WOW, don't think that it go high like this. I also bid on this, but the price is far away from what I can give. But I think it's a very nice kris.

sajen

Rick · 3rd September 2009, 03:35 AM

Boy !

Judging from the crappy pictures this example approaches relic status .

I don't get the high price .

ariel · 3rd September 2009, 04:06 AM

Is it just my impression, or are the Moro weapons starting to command exceedingly high prices?
This one seems to beat all records, though....

Alam Shah · 3rd September 2009, 04:13 AM

I took part in that auction, but the price went way off my comfort zone..

Someone wants it really bad.. oh well, moving on..

KuKulzA28 · 3rd September 2009, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Is it just my impression, or are the Moro weapons starting to command exceedingly high prices?
This one seems to beat all records, though....

No, I agree... I think Moro swords are getting more and more hype, like but nowhere close to nihonto.

Gavin Nugent · 3rd September 2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Is it just my impression, or are the Moro weapons starting to command exceedingly high prices?
This one seems to beat all records, though....

I certainly have noticed the trend in very high prices in every auction I have attended.

Gav

asomotif · 3rd September 2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Someone wants it really bad..

Probably 2 people that wanted it really bad.

You don't bid such amounts just for fun I guess.
Not a realistic price for a relic item IMHO

Amuk Murugul · 3rd September 2009, 10:40 AM

Hullo everybody,

IMVHO, nothing strange here. Just a general movement among peoples who were previously 'powerless' but are now endowed with more-than-adequate 'new' money. It means nothing to them. However, they use it to buy back their heritage (whatever they perceive that to be) which have been 'spirited' away and return them to their rightful places. Occurs in many sections of a vertical slice of society. I have observed it among the Russians, Arabs, Indians, etc.

Best,

Bill · 3rd September 2009, 04:06 PM

IMO, these "18C" span a hundred years & likely, longer. This one appears to be 17thC, at least. It would be real interesting to x-ray to find out what the tang looks like. The hilt is a early form & might have been reserved for special status.
Hope it doesn't re-appear "updated", it really is a cultural relic.
I was going to bid low $500's for it. On one hand, I can't see bidding more & on the other, if it were mine, I wouldn't have sold it for what it went for.

Aleksey G. · 3rd September 2009, 05:11 PM

From what I can see from the pics and the look of the blade, especially with those two fullers (or more like lines) that extend almost full length of the blade, I would venture a guess that it has a nice twist core. Im hoping that a person who bought it,
if he/she is a member of this forum can show it to us after a good clean up.

asomotif · 3rd September 2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

they use it to buy back their heritage

Hmmm

The buyer is located in the USA and over the last year he only sold items on ebay. not bought a single piece for more than a year with this account.

Based on this I don;t think this is "new money" buying back his heritage.

ThePepperSkull · 3rd September 2009, 08:20 PM

oh wow, that went for an insane price! I've seen some Datu/Jungggayan Kris go for much less. I wonder if this will soon become the norm.

KuKulzA28 · 3rd September 2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Hmmm

The buyer is located in the USA and over the last year he only sold items on ebay. not bought a single piece for more than a year with this account.

Based on this I don;t think this is "new money" buying back his heritage.

perhaps not, but I can see where Amuk Murugul is coming from. It doesn't have to be a Moro selling his blade to a tourist who sells it to a collector, who ends up selling it on eBay.

It could be a Taiwanese person, who's got this old rusty ox-tail saber in his house... this thing has won his great great grandfather a duel, has been used in battles in the Taiping and Boxer rebellion, has been used to fight Japanese and Communists... has been used to slaughter Taiwanese people in 228... and now, somehow through a complex weave of marriages and gift-giving... has ended up in some Taiwanese business man's house. Well, he is moving soon to America, and he really doesn't care for weapons... especially old rusty ones with a history of killing killing killing killing killing... killing... selling the old sword might get him enough money to pay for the plane flight... one less thing to bring, and one "free" flight!

He could be Indian... could be Native American... could be Turkish... whoever, the sword is not valuable enough to be kept, other things take priority... the new culture has other means of expressing itself and status, the sword is useless to that person

Rick · 3rd September 2009, 08:58 PM

If cleaned to bare metal I believe there would be a lot of heavy pitting left behind on what would be left of the blade .

Quite possibly better kept as it is .

Tim Simmons · 3rd September 2009, 09:18 PM

Seems crazy to me, none of this stuff is rare. Saying that there is a lot of stuff that is in reality frequently found from other places that people pay too much for. One just has to track the amount of very average Ulas on ebay, often nearly one a week and yet can still command silly prices.

TVV · 3rd September 2009, 10:48 PM

While the rarity of an object certainly figures into the price, it is only one of the elements that determine desirability. Certain weapons, even if relatively abundant compared to others, will command higher prices because of their artistic qualities, history and a special, symbolic meaning.

I would guess every collector has a favorite weapon type, which they can never have enough of. For me it would be a shamshir, for a friend of mine it is a yataghan, and for others it might be a kris. I would be willing to overpay for my favorite type, as long as I can afford the price.

It is pointless to try to define what is resonable or unreasonable with a hobby, which is by definition irrational.

Regards,
Teodor

P.S. I also tried to get a bid in just to make sure I did not miss out. By the time I was ready to confirm it, it did not even register.

hideyoshi · 3rd September 2009, 11:21 PM

I have seen a few examples of 19th Century Moro Fullered Krises with twisted core pattern, but never on 18th C. or earlier Moro Krises. It would be nice to see one.
Picked up this old Moro Kris a few weeks ago, nice dual fullering, but no twist core. The two archiac Moro Kris blades below with twist core pattern are much commonly seen.

Bill · 4th September 2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideyoshi

I have seen a few examples of 19th Century Moro Fullered Krises with twisted core pattern, but never on 18th C. or earlier Moro Krises. It would be nice to see one.
Picked up this old Moro Kris a few weeks ago, nice dual fullering, but no twist core. The two archiac Moro Kris blades below with twist core pattern are much commonly seen.

I agree, it's not likely to come back as a "twist core" as the buyer might be hoping.
What is your opinion as to age of the one in this thread as well as the one you posted.
Details will be appreciated.

hideyoshi · 4th September 2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I agree, it's not likely to come back as a "twist core" as the buyer might be hoping.
What is your opinion as to age of the one in this thread as well as the one you posted.
Details will be appreciated.

Hello Bill,
Based on Cato's theory, the Moro Kris in this thread and the one I posted are very old, say 1700's. Also, the angle of the hilt is another indication, this style oftenly seen in older pieces (300 + yrs).
Here's another photo of the Moro Kris that I posted. enjoy

http://www.seegersystems.com/maro/origpics.html

2nd September 2009, 10:03 PM	#1
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	18C ivory hilt finished on auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1182 WOW, didn't even get my final bid out Rick should be a happy man with the one he has, though this one looks like a real oldie.

3rd September 2009, 11:21 PM	#18
hideyoshi Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58	Fullered 18th Century Moro Kris I have seen a few examples of 19th Century Moro Fullered Krises with twisted core pattern, but never on 18th C. or earlier Moro Krises. It would be nice to see one. Picked up this old Moro Kris a few weeks ago, nice dual fullering, but no twist core. The two archiac Moro Kris blades below with twist core pattern are much commonly seen. Attached Images Last edited by hideyoshi; 4th September 2009 at 12:41 AM.

2nd September 2009, 11:27 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,788	Indeed, WOW, don't think that it go high like this. I also bid on this, but the price is far away from what I can give. But I think it's a very nice kris. sajen

3rd September 2009, 03:35 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Boy ! Judging from the crappy pictures this example approaches relic status . I don't get the high price .

3rd September 2009, 04:06 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Is it just my impression, or are the Moro weapons starting to command exceedingly high prices? This one seems to beat all records, though....

3rd September 2009, 04:13 AM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	I took part in that auction, but the price went way off my comfort zone.. Someone wants it really bad.. oh well, moving on..

3rd September 2009, 10:40 AM	#9
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 460	Hullo everybody, IMVHO, nothing strange here. Just a general movement among peoples who were previously 'powerless' but are now endowed with more-than-adequate 'new' money. It means nothing to them. However, they use it to buy back their heritage (whatever they perceive that to be) which have been 'spirited' away and return them to their rightful places. Occurs in many sections of a vertical slice of society. I have observed it among the Russians, Arabs, Indians, etc. Best,

3rd September 2009, 04:06 PM	#10
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	IMO, these "18C" span a hundred years & likely, longer. This one appears to be 17thC, at least. It would be real interesting to x-ray to find out what the tang looks like. The hilt is a early form & might have been reserved for special status. Hope it doesn't re-appear "updated", it really is a cultural relic. I was going to bid low $500's for it. On one hand, I can't see bidding more & on the other, if it were mine, I wouldn't have sold it for what it went for.

3rd September 2009, 05:11 PM	#11
Aleksey G. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 70	From what I can see from the pics and the look of the blade, especially with those two fullers (or more like lines) that extend almost full length of the blade, I would venture a guess that it has a nice twist core. Im hoping that a person who bought it, if he/she is a member of this forum can show it to us after a good clean up.

3rd September 2009, 08:20 PM	#13
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	oh wow, that went for an insane price! I've seen some Datu/Jungggayan Kris go for much less. I wonder if this will soon become the norm.

3rd September 2009, 08:58 PM	#15
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	If cleaned to bare metal I believe there would be a lot of heavy pitting left behind on what would be left of the blade . Quite possibly better kept as it is .

3rd September 2009, 09:18 PM	#16
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Seems crazy to me, none of this stuff is rare. Saying that there is a lot of stuff that is in reality frequently found from other places that people pay too much for. One just has to track the amount of very average Ulas on ebay, often nearly one a week and yet can still command silly prices.

3rd September 2009, 10:48 PM	#17
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,625	While the rarity of an object certainly figures into the price, it is only one of the elements that determine desirability. Certain weapons, even if relatively abundant compared to others, will command higher prices because of their artistic qualities, history and a special, symbolic meaning. I would guess every collector has a favorite weapon type, which they can never have enough of. For me it would be a shamshir, for a friend of mine it is a yataghan, and for others it might be a kris. I would be willing to overpay for my favorite type, as long as I can afford the price. It is pointless to try to define what is resonable or unreasonable with a hobby, which is by definition irrational. Regards, Teodor P.S. I also tried to get a bid in just to make sure I did not miss out. By the time I was ready to confirm it, it did not even register.