Tajong-viewing plesure & comments.

BluErf · 30th August 2009, 04:34 AM

Hi Mykeris, you are right that you cannot fully understand everything through pictures and forum discussions. However, that is the limitation we have on this forum. Not everyone can go to N. Malaysia/S. Thailand to see and handle these things.

I know what you mean about buying through runners, but I would say ultimately, it is how discerning we are in selecting the gems from the dross.

If you know whoever is making tajong of the quality I have posted, please let me know, I would like to buy more of them.

I don't have an issue with people using modern tools, but even with modern tools, can the carvers these days turn up hilts of such quality? Or the bigger question - do they want to spend the time?

The Spirit of Wood illustrates some of the best examples of very good old tajong hilts. I highly recommend everyone who has an interest in tajong to look at it. Look at it enough, and you shd be able to tell what makes a good old tajong, vs a new made rougher one. Again, I'm not discriminating against new work. If it is done meticulously, it is worthy of accolades. If it is done roughly, then, it is just another piece of commercial work.

What is defined as 'old'? I don't want to make any representations about how old my hilt is, and I have used the words "older", "newer", as a general separating descriptor for what is churned out in the present compared to those made carefully in the past, which could have been not too distant (e.g. pre-WWII?).

If you do know whoever can make hilts of this quality, let me know! Thanks in advance.

BluErf · 30th August 2009, 04:43 AM

Speaking of patina, I leave it to fellow forumnites to judge.

Michel · 30th August 2009, 02:55 PM

Hi Bluerf,
Folowing your information I turn to "Spirit of Wood" to try to identify the below shown Hulu. In spite of the many pictures and nice drawings, (what a marvelous book) I am not able to conclude that this Hulu is a Tajong, a Coteng, or a Bangsa Agung. For me it looks as a mixture but not a classical design in the Tagong family:
The sculpture is not as deep and sharp as the one you have shown and the polish not to the same level.
What is your opinion.
Regards
Michel

BluErf · 30th August 2009, 04:00 PM

Removed. See posting below.

BluErf · 30th August 2009, 05:05 PM

Hello Michel,

This hilt of yours, unfortunately, is an 'imitation' hilt made in Java/Madura. It is not from N. Malaya. Hence, you were not able to identify what it was. Java/Madura has been making 'imitations' of tajong and even the silver coteng hilts for quite some time. Some of them look proper from the side, but do not look correct from any other angles, because these people worked on photographs taken from the side angle only.

Michel · 30th August 2009, 08:41 PM

Thank you Kai Wee,
I had some suspicions as I bought it in Jogjakarta.
No problem with your frankness, it is the right way to enable us to learn. Now, you identify this imitation due to the fact it is not corresponding to the rules of Tajong or because it is not sculpted as neatly and precisely as Nik Rashidin use to do !
Thanks again and regards

Michel.

David · 30th August 2009, 11:37 PM

Thanks for posting the diagrams Kai Wee, that's exactly what i was hoping for. I should have know to look in Spirit of Wood since i do own a copy, but i haven't looked throught it in a while and these diagrams slipped my mind.

30th August 2009, 04:34 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Mykeris, you are right that you cannot fully understand everything through pictures and forum discussions. However, that is the limitation we have on this forum. Not everyone can go to N. Malaysia/S. Thailand to see and handle these things. I know what you mean about buying through runners, but I would say ultimately, it is how discerning we are in selecting the gems from the dross. If you know whoever is making tajong of the quality I have posted, please let me know, I would like to buy more of them. I don't have an issue with people using modern tools, but even with modern tools, can the carvers these days turn up hilts of such quality? Or the bigger question - do they want to spend the time? The Spirit of Wood illustrates some of the best examples of very good old tajong hilts. I highly recommend everyone who has an interest in tajong to look at it. Look at it enough, and you shd be able to tell what makes a good old tajong, vs a new made rougher one. Again, I'm not discriminating against new work. If it is done meticulously, it is worthy of accolades. If it is done roughly, then, it is just another piece of commercial work. What is defined as 'old'? I don't want to make any representations about how old my hilt is, and I have used the words "older", "newer", as a general separating descriptor for what is churned out in the present compared to those made carefully in the past, which could have been not too distant (e.g. pre-WWII?). If you do know whoever can make hilts of this quality, let me know! Thanks in advance. Last edited by BluErf; 30th August 2009 at 04:52 AM.

30th August 2009, 02:55 PM	#3
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	hulu Tajong? Hi Bluerf, Folowing your information I turn to "Spirit of Wood" to try to identify the below shown Hulu. In spite of the many pictures and nice drawings, (what a marvelous book) I am not able to conclude that this Hulu is a Tajong, a Coteng, or a Bangsa Agung. For me it looks as a mixture but not a classical design in the Tagong family: The sculpture is not as deep and sharp as the one you have shown and the polish not to the same level. What is your opinion. Regards Michel Attached Images

30th August 2009, 04:00 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Removed. See posting below. Last edited by BluErf; 30th August 2009 at 05:06 PM.

30th August 2009, 08:41 PM	#6
Michel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 139	Hulu Tajong ? Thank you Kai Wee, I had some suspicions as I bought it in Jogjakarta. No problem with your frankness, it is the right way to enable us to learn. Now, you identify this imitation due to the fact it is not corresponding to the rules of Tajong or because it is not sculpted as neatly and precisely as Nik Rashidin use to do ! Thanks again and regards Michel.

30th August 2009, 04:43 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Speaking of patina, I leave it to fellow forumnites to judge.

30th August 2009, 05:05 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hello Michel, This hilt of yours, unfortunately, is an 'imitation' hilt made in Java/Madura. It is not from N. Malaya. Hence, you were not able to identify what it was. Java/Madura has been making 'imitations' of tajong and even the silver coteng hilts for quite some time. Some of them look proper from the side, but do not look correct from any other angles, because these people worked on photographs taken from the side angle only.

30th August 2009, 11:37 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks for posting the diagrams Kai Wee, that's exactly what i was hoping for. I should have know to look in Spirit of Wood since i do own a copy, but i haven't looked throught it in a while and these diagrams slipped my mind.