Interesting Lumad sword

themorningstar · 11th May 2005, 05:41 AM

it's a sundang...

Ian · 11th May 2005, 12:43 PM

themorningstar.

Thanks for the information. Would you care to comment on the influences that seem to have contributed to this sword -- Spanish, Moro, Visayan?

Spunjer · 11th May 2005, 02:07 PM

well said, ian...

tom hyle · 11th May 2005, 02:38 PM

Is it chisel bevelled? Do you not see a (close) resemblance to matulis?

philkid · 11th May 2005, 03:28 PM

Hi guys, glad you liked the "lumad" sword I have posted on ebay. Thanks for the clarification. I really thought it was Moro because I bought it from a Maranao.

Federico · 11th May 2005, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philkid

Hi guys, glad you liked the "lumad" sword I have posted on ebay. Thanks for the clarification. I really thought it was Moro because I bought it from a Maranao.

Ive seen a couple other swords similar to this one, which were bought from Maranao, so you arent the only person who has encountered this phenomena. I wonder why a lumad sword would first be sold to a Maranao middleman and then to a Christian Filipino. Apparantly must be a common practice.

Bill · 11th May 2005, 05:48 PM

TheMorningStar, what is your definition of a Sundang, this sword form, or a sword made for fighting? Anyone care to put a age bracket for this form? The hilt form is not that far from Maranao type punals & gunongs, & the metal stampings would be consistant with Maranao, but also seem to fall short of the detail, somewhat generic.

Ian · 11th May 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

Ive seen a couple other swords similar to this one, which were bought from Maranao, so you arent the only person who has encountered this phenomena. I wonder why a lumad sword would first be sold to a Maranao middleman and then to a Christian Filipino. Apparantly must be a common practice.

Federico:

The answer is simply based on how the local market works. Over the years, the market has been much stronger for Moro weapons than Lumad weapons. Those who bring weapons to the dealers in Davao City and other "disposal" points have been Muslims dealing in Moro weapons. Now, if I have a Lumad sword and want to get a good deal, but have no good contacts to sell it, then I'll sell it to the guy who has those connections (or maybe he takes it on commission). So the Moro seller becomes an agent for other types of swords, which suits his purpose also when the supply of Moro weapons starts to dry up.

Win-win situation all round.

I have sat in antique shops in Manila and watched Muslims from Mindanao come by and try to sell a variety of wares from Mindanao to the Manila dealers. Often included in their offerings are T'boli, Bagobo and Kaolu items. The seller knows what he has, and if confronted with a direct statement, such as, "That's a Bagobo knife," will readily acknowledge the true origin of the piece. Otherwise he will try to lump them all as "Moro" because he will get a better price that way. Caveat emptor!

zamboanga · 12th May 2005, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Federico

Ive seen a couple other swords similar to this one, which were bought from Maranao, so you arent the only person who has encountered this phenomena. I wonder why a lumad sword would first be sold to a Maranao middleman and then to a Christian Filipino. Apparantly must be a common practice.

i think there is a bit of chance that the lumad sword mentioned here is maranao made. but that's just my opinion. i used to have a maranao made jian and pira.

by the way, the tagacaolos are said to be a branch of the mandayas.

Ian · 11th May 2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philkid

Hi guys, glad you liked the "lumad" sword I have posted on ebay. Thanks for the clarification. I really thought it was Moro because I bought it from a Maranao.

Not a problem. IMO it is more common to see misidentified Lumad knives and swords than those with a correct attribution.

Ian · 25th August 2005, 04:51 PM

well made swords just finished on eBay and the price is climbing. Even though advertised as "Moro" it is not a recognized weapon of the Moro but of the Kaolu (one of the Lumad tribes) around Davao City. The quality is good on these recently made swords, and they may have been produced by a Moro crafstman, but the style is definitely not Moro. This example is a modern sword made mainly for sale to wealthy tourists.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6554400265

Ian.

Spunjer · 25th August 2005, 05:09 PM

ian

i was watching that as well. like you, i think it's recent...

Rick · 25th August 2005, 05:32 PM

Holy Bedcovering !

Nice piece .

Three years ago this would not have fetched such a price .
I think I'm seeing the prices of Moro pieces declining of late while pieces from other Philippine cultures are on the rise .

Then again I don't think I've seen many real nice Moro Arms on ebay of late ;
many seem to be retrofitted examples .

Spunjer , where'd you find that pic of the guys gambling on the PI thread ?
Those carbines look like WWII ordinance .

Ian · 25th August 2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

... I think I'm seeing the prices of Moro pieces declining of late while pieces from other Philippine cultures are on the rise.

Then again I don't think I've seen many real nice Moro Arms on ebay of late;
many seem to be retrofitted examples. ...

Rick:

Not much good Moro stuff coming out of the Muslim areas because of the recent law and order problems in Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago. The better quality stuff is coming from Davao City and surroundings, which is relatively rich in Lumad weapons.

Ian.

11th May 2005, 12:43 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Thanks for the ID themorningstar. Thanks for the information. Would you care to comment on the influences that seem to have contributed to this sword -- Spanish, Moro, Visayan?

25th August 2005, 04:51 PM	#11
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,396	Another one of these ... well made swords just finished on eBay and the price is climbing. Even though advertised as "Moro" it is not a recognized weapon of the Moro but of the Kaolu (one of the Lumad tribes) around Davao City. The quality is good on these recently made swords, and they may have been produced by a Moro crafstman, but the style is definitely not Moro. This example is a modern sword made mainly for sale to wealthy tourists. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6554400265 Ian.

11th May 2005, 05:41 AM	#1
themorningstar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 55	it's a sundang...

11th May 2005, 02:07 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	well said, ian...

11th May 2005, 02:38 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Is it chisel bevelled? Do you not see a (close) resemblance to matulis?

11th May 2005, 03:28 PM	#5
philkid Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philippines Posts: 52	Hi guys, glad you liked the "lumad" sword I have posted on ebay. Thanks for the clarification. I really thought it was Moro because I bought it from a Maranao.

11th May 2005, 05:48 PM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	TheMorningStar, what is your definition of a Sundang, this sword form, or a sword made for fighting? Anyone care to put a age bracket for this form? The hilt form is not that far from Maranao type punals & gunongs, & the metal stampings would be consistant with Maranao, but also seem to fall short of the detail, somewhat generic.

25th August 2005, 05:09 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	ian i was watching that as well. like you, i think it's recent...

25th August 2005, 05:32 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Holy Bedcovering ! Nice piece . Three years ago this would not have fetched such a price . I think I'm seeing the prices of Moro pieces declining of late while pieces from other Philippine cultures are on the rise . Then again I don't think I've seen many real nice Moro Arms on ebay of late ; many seem to be retrofitted examples . Spunjer , where'd you find that pic of the guys gambling on the PI thread ? Those carbines look like WWII ordinance .