Sumbawa keris for enjoy and discussion

Rick · 23rd August 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

The blade is maybe a traded blade from Java, maybe Mr. Maisey can confirm this. The blade is 34 cm long without pesi.

sajen

I was wondering about that Sajen .

A. G. Maisey · 23rd August 2009, 11:47 PM

From what I can see in the photos this blade does look like Jawa.

Having said that I will now say this:-

I have not studied keris from Sumbawa in depth.

I know what people living in Jawa and Bali regard as Sumbawa keris; I have seen photos of Sumbawa keris in a couple of books; I have a first edition of Stone, in which the illustrations are vastly better than in the later editions, and there are several keris attributed to Sumbawa shown in this book.

Based upon my extremely limited knowledge I cannot see any resemblance between this keris, and what I understand to be a Sumbawa keris.

I do know this:- certain dealers in Surabaya and Jogja assemble rare, unusual, and highly desireable keris from a mixture of genuine old parts and newly manufactured parts that have been carefully aged. These creations are then often marketed as having come from an area of the Archipelago that is not well known, and about which almost nothing exists to assist in verification of originality of keris.

In the case of a keris such as this one, I would want certification of provenance before I would accept that it is a real Sumbawa keris. Some of that work in the dress looks decidedly Jawa to me.

Amuk Murugul · 24th August 2009, 04:20 AM

Hullo everybody,

The hilt on this piece reminds me of a shop in Gianyar which sells similarly-constructed hilts which are sold as Bugis.

Best,

Sajen · 24th August 2009, 06:31 PM

Hello all,

I've bought this keris 2003 from a Bugis who don't have had a shop. This is unfortunately the only provenance I have. Like I write before, the handle I changed byself, it's possible that this handle is recent, I also know this handles from Celuk. I will post pictures from the original handle later. Yesterday I did some research in the forum, here is a link I want to remember: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=sumbawa
The wooden part of the sheat is old, this I believe and the blade fits perfect inside the sheat, from this I will post also a picture later.
Pendok and toli toli is difficult to say, maybe old, maybe recent. What I have seen yesterday, the pendok seems to be typical for Sumbawa keris. Here some pictures I copied from the forum (hope the former owner forgive me). You can see nearly the same motifs.

Mr. Maisey, you can explain me what at this dress look Javanese to you?

Sajen · 24th August 2009, 06:55 PM

Here the pictures of the "original" hilt and a close up how the blade fits inside the sheat.

A. G. Maisey · 24th August 2009, 11:02 PM

The workmanship in the hilt and pendok both look like Javanese workmanship to me.I am not talking about style here, but about the way in which elements of the work have been completed.

If that wooden hilt is the hilt that the keris came with, I'd be inclined to refit it.

Gustav · 25th August 2009, 09:37 AM

Hello Sajen,

this wooden hilt is nice.

Another thing - it seems to me, that the selut of this "original" hilt and toli-toli are pretty similar in style, but they are really different to the pendhok.

I think, the possibility this warangka comes from Sumbawa is great. They love such horn on the top and that curled grain.

A question - are the opening in this horn slice and the mouth of warangka identical in size?

24th August 2009, 06:31 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hello all, I've bought this keris 2003 from a Bugis who don't have had a shop. This is unfortunately the only provenance I have. Like I write before, the handle I changed byself, it's possible that this handle is recent, I also know this handles from Celuk. I will post pictures from the original handle later. Yesterday I did some research in the forum, here is a link I want to remember: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=sumbawa The wooden part of the sheat is old, this I believe and the blade fits perfect inside the sheat, from this I will post also a picture later. Pendok and toli toli is difficult to say, maybe old, maybe recent. What I have seen yesterday, the pendok seems to be typical for Sumbawa keris. Here some pictures I copied from the forum (hope the former owner forgive me). You can see nearly the same motifs. Mr. Maisey, you can explain me what at this dress look Javanese to you? Attached Images Last edited by Sajen; 24th August 2009 at 07:01 PM.

24th August 2009, 06:55 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Here the pictures of the "original" hilt and a close up how the blade fits inside the sheat. Attached Images

23rd August 2009, 11:47 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	From what I can see in the photos this blade does look like Jawa. Having said that I will now say this:- I have not studied keris from Sumbawa in depth. I know what people living in Jawa and Bali regard as Sumbawa keris; I have seen photos of Sumbawa keris in a couple of books; I have a first edition of Stone, in which the illustrations are vastly better than in the later editions, and there are several keris attributed to Sumbawa shown in this book. Based upon my extremely limited knowledge I cannot see any resemblance between this keris, and what I understand to be a Sumbawa keris. I do know this:- certain dealers in Surabaya and Jogja assemble rare, unusual, and highly desireable keris from a mixture of genuine old parts and newly manufactured parts that have been carefully aged. These creations are then often marketed as having come from an area of the Archipelago that is not well known, and about which almost nothing exists to assist in verification of originality of keris. In the case of a keris such as this one, I would want certification of provenance before I would accept that it is a real Sumbawa keris. Some of that work in the dress looks decidedly Jawa to me.

24th August 2009, 04:20 AM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo everybody, The hilt on this piece reminds me of a shop in Gianyar which sells similarly-constructed hilts which are sold as Bugis. Best,

24th August 2009, 11:02 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	The workmanship in the hilt and pendok both look like Javanese workmanship to me.I am not talking about style here, but about the way in which elements of the work have been completed. If that wooden hilt is the hilt that the keris came with, I'd be inclined to refit it.

25th August 2009, 09:37 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Hello Sajen, this wooden hilt is nice. Another thing - it seems to me, that the selut of this "original" hilt and toli-toli are pretty similar in style, but they are really different to the pendhok. I think, the possibility this warangka comes from Sumbawa is great. They love such horn on the top and that curled grain. A question - are the opening in this horn slice and the mouth of warangka identical in size?