On ethnography, hallucinogens, improvised knife, etc.

[Rick]

Thank you Miguel, that was delightful .

Have you ever read any of Castenada's books ?

Rick

[fearn]

That was great, Miguel, and that's a knife none of us will ever collect

Personally, I prefer Wade Davis to Castaneda. I sold all my Castaneda books years ago, but I still have an old copy of Serpent and the Rainbow kicking around.

Best,

F

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks Miguel, very nice presentation. Wade Davis is, of course, the man who wrote The Serpent and the Rainbow, which unfortunately was made into a rather sensational and stupid movie. I had the pleasure of seeing him talk at the Museum of Nature History back in the 1990s.

Thanks too, David. I didn't know about Wade Davis until I saw that video. He's an authority all right on the subject

Originally Posted by Rick

Thank you Miguel, that was delightful. Have you ever read any of Castenada's books?

Hello Rick. Am not really familiar with ethnobotany, and with the writers on the subject. My cup of tea is more about mayhem and destruction But since you mentioned Castaneda, I'll find out more about the guy. Thanks!

Originally Posted by fearn

That was great, Miguel, and that's a knife none of us will ever collect Personally, I prefer Wade Davis to Castaneda. I sold all my Castaneda books years ago, but I still have an old copy of Serpent and the Rainbow kicking around.

Fearn, amen on your view about that DIY [do-it-yourself] 'knife' And given the many mentions here about the 'Serpent' book, I think I should really get a copy for myself

[fearn]

Miguel,

I'd also recommend Davis' One River. Although it's mostly about ethnobotany (as is Serpent and the Rainbow), there are some weapons related things in there as well. Curare, for instance (in One River), or zombie making (in Serpent and the Rainbow).

As for Carlos Castaneda, if you haven't read any of his books, I'd suggest checking out the Wikipedia articles first, just so you know what you're getting into.

Best,

F

[Rick]

Agree with Fearn on this .

[stephen wood]

...I think I have seen a knife like that on ebay

[Andrew]

Nice! I'm a fan of both Davis and Castaneda.

(I even enjoyed the film version of Serpent. )

[Rick]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...I think I have seen a knife like that on ebay

I hope it is shipped in dry ice ...

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by fearn

I'd also recommend Davis' One River. Although it's mostly about ethnobotany (as is Serpent and the Rainbow), there are some weapons related things in there as well. Curare, for instance (in One River), or zombie making (in Serpent and the Rainbow). As for Carlos Castaneda, if you haven't read any of his books, I'd suggest checking out the Wikipedia articles first, just so you know what you're getting into.

Thanks for the additional tips, Fearn!

On Davis, the moment he said ...

"To have that [ethnic psychoactive] powder blown up your nose is rather like being shot out of a rifle barrel lined with baroque paintings and landing on a sea of electricity."

... I instantly became a disciple of Davis

What I meant by that is that the guy sure can communicate and captivate his audience's imagination. And for that, I like the man already (better late than never).

But what is really mind blowing for me is not the recreational or meditative uses of these plants among the natives.

Rather, it's the fact that as said elsewhere and everywhere "while 25% of Western pharmaceuticals are derived from rainforest ingredients, less than 1% of these tropical trees and plants have been tested by scientists".

I'm sure the cure for cancer, AIDS, cardiovascular diseases, etc. are just there, lying in those forests!

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Thanks for the additional tips, Fearn!

On Davis, the moment he said ...

"To have that [ethnic psychoactive] powder blown up your nose is rather like being shot out of a rifle barrel lined with baroque paintings and landing on a sea of electricity."

... I instantly became a disciple of Davis

What I meant by that is that the guy sure can communicate and captivate his audience's imagination. And for that, I like the man already (better late than never).

But what is really mind blowing for me is not the recreational or meditative uses of these plants among the natives.

Rather, it's the fact that as said elsewhere and everywhere "while 25% of Western pharmaceuticals are derived from rainforest ingredients, less than 1% of these tropical trees and plants have been tested by scientists".

I'm sure the cure for cancer, AIDS, cardiovascular diseases, etc. are just there, lying in those forests!

And it may be that those trees can sing too, to ears who's minds are receptive to that concept.

[fearn]

Sigh. There are already herbal cancer drugs (i.e. taxol from yew) and heart disease (digitalis from foxglove). It's all well and good to wish for a miracle drugs, but things like exercise and safe sex still work best. Boring, isn't it?

Incidentally, it's also worth noting that the archeologists now think that the Amazon (at least along the main, whitewater rivers) was home to a lot more people than we thought even a few years ago. I'm venturing into speculative territory, but I'm guessing that one reason there is this sophisticated use of hallucinogens throughout the Amazon is that it used to be more, well, civilized, and they had the time and numbers of experimenters to work out the drug interactions that Davis talks about. Diseases brought by the Spaniards and Portuguese probably wiped out most of the river cultures, and the tribes we see now are the isolated remnants after 500 years.

Something similar may have happened in the Congo, too, since there's plentiful pottery remains and former cultivated fields in the upper basin, in areas that were once thought to be virgin rain forest.

Anyway, getting off topic. Fun stuff!

F

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

And it may be that those trees can sing too, to ears who's minds are receptive to that concept.

That's a possibility, though at the moment such claim is classified as pseudoscience I believe

Mythbusters if it can regarded as a good experimenter (perhaps it is), is supposed to have busted the belief (though some claim that the same experiment proved otherwise).

Personally, I don't believe that plants or trees are sentient (anatomically, they don't have a brain or a nervous system, etc.). And I'm sure Fearn can elaborate on this more.

But after knowing that those Indians do perceive something from plants and they have evidence to prove such allegation, I'm now having second thoughts

[David]

Originally Posted by fearn

Personally, I prefer Wade Davis to Castaneda. I sold all my Castaneda books years ago, but I still have an old copy of Serpent and the Rainbow kicking around.

I find them both interesing, but for me the biggest difference is that Castaneda is fiction, albeit informed (and informative) fiction.

[Andrew]

"Fiction"?!?

Blasphemy.

[fearn]

Andrew,

Far be it from me to criticize anyone's beliefs. I will leave that to Wikipedia. Link to Carlos Castaneda article.

Other than that, he did write some interesting books.

Best,

F

[Andrew]

lol.