TALISMANIC KERIS?

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

It´s the reciever of the offering that maybe will produce magical and miraculous effects, not the object, by itself, that is being offered.

While i would not aggressively argue with this there are many who would no doubt argue that the "magick" or "miracle" is more a product of the mind of the offering giver him/herself. Certainly there is importance and indeed power intrinsic to objects that are spiritually offered, some more than others and i feel it is no stretch at all to attribute a bit of "magick" to these offered objects themselves.
While i do spend some time researching magick from a anthropologic/sociologic viewpoint i have spent much more of my energies over the past 30 years in the actual practice of magick and frankly, for me, in that context, giver, gift and deity are all one.
Unfortunately i do not read French or i would most certainly check out these books.
Still this brings us, as always it must on this forum, back to keris. Again i must point out that the objects that we refer to as keris sajen were obviously not always meant to be an offering or we would not have all these fine examples in our collections. They would all be buried in the fields where they were offered. It seems obvious to me at least that a great number of these keris were intended to be kept for talismanic purposes. Perhaps this means that the name is "wrong". This is the trouble with the name game. It goes 'round and 'round and 'round. But this is the name we seem to identify with this form today. Yesterday perhaps, we called them keris Majapahit. Tomorrow there may indeed be a consensus to call them something else. Still, i see no problem personally in referring to this form as a "talismanic keris" as i did previously in this thread.

[Alam Shah]

Hi all,
I have a question..
Which event started first, the keris as a ceremonial/talismanic item (keris sajen) then evolved into a weapon OR evolved as a weapon first, then a variant for talismanic use comes later?

[ganjawulung]

Dear David and Michael,

Interesting discussion. I can only suggest you to look at this cultural anthropologist who had spent much time in studying 'cultural belief' in Thailand and Indonesia -- especially 'Javanese Belief'. He is dutch born anthropologist Niels Mulder. (His books: "Mysticism & Everyday Life in Contemporary Java: Cultural Persistence and Change" -- Singapore University Press, 1978 and also his interesting work, "Mysticism in Java: Ideology in Indonesia" -- Pepin Press, Amsterdam). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_beliefs

Then you may see the trace of Javanese past -- the trace of "javanese mysticism" in (Indonesia) contemporary life. Mysticism is still seen until today in Indonesian life, although they have adopted Islamism for their formal belief..

A daily ritual in Java until now, as "Slametan" for instance, is still practiced among the javanese moslem until today. Pls see this http://www.songofsnow.com/Mysticism-...-p/mysjava.htm

Niels Mulder had spent a couple of years in studying this Javanese belief

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Dear David and Michael,

Interesting discussion. I can only suggest you to look at this cultural anthropologist who had spent much time in studying 'cultural belief' in Thailand and Indonesia -- especially 'Javanese Belief'. He is dutch born anthropologist Niels Mulder. (His books: "Mysticism & Everyday Life in Contemporary Java: Cultural Persistence and Change" -- Singapore University Press, 1978 and also his interesting work, "Mysticism in Java: Ideology in Indonesia" -- Pepin Press, Amsterdam). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javanese_beliefs

Then you may see the trace of Javanese past -- the trace of "javanese mysticism" in (Indonesia) contemporary life. Mysticism is still seen until today in Indonesian life, although they have adopted Islamism for their formal belief..

A daily ritual in Java until now, as "Slametan" for instance, is still practiced among the javanese moslem until today. Pls see this http://www.songofsnow.com/Mysticism-...-p/mysjava.htm

Niels Mulder had spent a couple of years in studying this Javanese belief

GANJAWULUNG

Thanks Ganja, i have and have read Mulder's Mysticism in Java: Ideology in Indonesia. I found it a very interesting read.

[Montino Bourbon]

Got this one from an aquaintance in Bali. I would love to hear your opinions.

Blade length 27 cm

total length 38.5 cm

[VVV]

Thanks Ganja,

I have also read Mulder´s book on Mysticism. Another of my favourites are Koentjaraningrat´s Javanese Culture.
Enough with words and back to the function of this keris.
I suspect the clue is that earth spirits are afraid of iron and people are afraid of earth spirits.
So if you want to protect yourself against earth spirits it´s good to have a piece of iron on you or next to the object, like a rice-field, you want to protect...

Michael

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by VVV

I have also read Mulder´s book on Mysticism. Another of my favourites are Koentjaraningrat´s Javanese Culture.
Enough with words and back to the function of this keris.
I suspect the clue is that earth spirits are afraid of iron and people are afraid of earth spirits.
So if you want to protect yourself against earth spirits it´s good to have a piece of iron on you or next to the object, like a rice-field, you want to protect...

Yes, it is an interesting book. And I think, it is a need too, to search more 'spiritual meaning' of keris world, not only from function. But also from "words"...

Searching "words" on mysticism, for instance. It will enrich your knowledge on keris. As Mulder said in his book ... "mysticism has occupied a place of pride in Javanese culture for a very long time..."

Event with the advent of Islam and its social organization, in Indonesia -- according to Niels Mulder -- mysticism in Java have changed, adapting themselves to and being shaped by new circumstances...

"Slametan", for instance or as Alan just said in the previous post on "bersih desa" ritual, may be it could be explain a little bit -- why in the past Javanese used to give "offering" to the mother nature...

"Slametan" -- according to Mulder -- is a core ritual to sustain, maintain, or promote order. A communal religious meal in which neighbours plus some relatives and friends participate. Slametan demonstrate the desire to be safe in an unruly world...

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

Physically, it is not worth to be called as weapon. Too thin, although the 'sarung' or sheath looks like a small pedang-warangka -- made of "sana keling" wood (blackish wood, I don't know the English name of it) and "mamas" frame...

Very thin old blade, with dhapur "betok". And it has a residual ornament in the "sor-soran" (lower) part. Like my other "talismanic keris", the blade also smelled so strong of "misik" parfume...

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by Montino Bourbon

Got this one from an aquaintance in Bali. I would love to hear your opinions.

Blade length 27 cm

total length 38.5 cm

The hilt -- although quite rough -- is typically old eastern Jawa style. Also the warangka, eastern Jawa -- almost similar with Solonese gayaman, but usually without pendhok...

A straight "puthut kembar" (twin priest) keris...

GANJAWULUNG

[lemmythesmith]

Hi all, here's my talismanic keris, blade is 139mm long with a slot cut through the blade. When I bought it I was told the slot was for poison in the bottom half of the slot there is a colourless residue which I have left well alone! Does anyone know any significance to the stripe down the sheath? It has been carefully shaped to ensure the stripe in the middle. The blade also appears to have a very stylised "putut" too.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by lemmythesmith

Does anyone know any significance to the stripe down the sheath? It has been carefully shaped to ensure the stripe in the middle.

If the stripe 'across' the sheath, across the fibre -- then it will be called as "kendhit". But I don't think there is a special term for the stripe down "pelet" (dark motif in timoho wood) or may be there is? Visually it is good, stripe down.

The 'silver' frame, I guess you made it yourself. Didn't you?

GANJAWULUNG

[mykeris]

Mine is made of copper recenlty acquired, I do not know whether 'material-copper' is good for Jimat (Talasmanic). Length 25cm in sheath. I wouldn't know whether is new or old because many Javanese old fake kerises in the market. No talasmanic-waves transmitted yet because the keris is just on its way to my home.he he he..hopefully it turns out to be something nice.

SHARING A METHOD: ACTIVATING MYSTICAL PROPERTIES OF NON-ACTIVE KERISES: : Put your keris on top of a white bowl containing water, get a 15 inch Magnifying Glass and place it on top of your Keris during a Full Moon night. Let the moon shine on your keris untill it moves away. If you don't get immediate result, do it a few times during a full moon night. Gud Luck.

[mykeris]

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[Rick]

Originally Posted by mykeris

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