High-resolution pics at Cornell's website

[VANDOO]

SORRY TO COME IN SO LATE ON THIS ONE BUT HAVE BEEN BUSY AND AM NOW PLAYING CATCH UP. THANKS!! THESE ARE GREAT PICTURES AND SEVERAL I HAD NOT SEEN.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE FIRST TWO PICTURES IT IS OF THE BATTLE OF BUD DAJO. THE TROOPS ARE STANDING BY WHAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL FULL OF HUMAN SKULLS. IS THIS THE SIDE OF SOME SORT OF FORTIFICATION OR SACRED PLACE WHERE THE HEADS OF ENEMYS WERE DISPLAYED AT THE VILLAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS SORT OF THING IN MANY HEADHUNTING SOCIETYS BUT NOT FROM THE PHILIPPINES. SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.? THE FALLEN WARRIOR IN THE PICTURE IS RECENTLY KILLED IN THE BATTLE SO THE SKULLS WERE ALREADY THERE AND NOT FROM THE BATTLE AND IT IS UNLIKELY THE TROOPS MADE THE DISPLAY.

[Bill]

The fellow with the katipunan dagger is Gen. Tomas Mascardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomas_Mascardo
looks very similar to the dagger, once posted but now the photos are gone, of General Leandro Fullon.
http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002102.html
perhaps Bill Marsh has a opinion

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Bill

The fellow with the katipunan dagger is Gen. Tomas Mascardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomas_Mascardo
looks very similar to the dagger, once posted but now the photos are gone, of General Leandro Fullon. http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002102.html
perhaps Bill Marsh has a opinion

Thanks, Bill. Here's the detail of Mascardo's dagger ...

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

SORRY TO COME IN SO LATE ON THIS ONE BUT HAVE BEEN BUSY AND AM NOW PLAYING CATCH UP. THANKS!! THESE ARE GREAT PICTURES AND SEVERAL I HAD NOT SEEN.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF THE FIRST TWO PICTURES IT IS OF THE BATTLE OF BUD DAJO. THE TROOPS ARE STANDING BY WHAT LOOKS LIKE A WALL FULL OF HUMAN SKULLS. IS THIS THE SIDE OF SOME SORT OF FORTIFICATION OR SACRED PLACE WHERE THE HEADS OF ENEMYS WERE DISPLAYED AT THE VILLAGE. I HAVE SEEN THIS SORT OF THING IN MANY HEADHUNTING SOCIETYS BUT NOT FROM THE PHILIPPINES. SO MY QUESTION IS DID THE NATIVE PHILIPINOS HAVE THESE SKULL DISPLAYS IN THIER VILLAGES OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE.? THE FALLEN WARRIOR IN THE PICTURE IS RECENTLY KILLED IN THE BATTLE SO THE SKULLS WERE ALREADY THERE AND NOT FROM THE BATTLE AND IT IS UNLIKELY THE TROOPS MADE THE DISPLAY.

Vandoo, I have looked in to this picture in the past. From what I understand, the photo of the skulls were taken at the 'second' Battle of Bud Dajo(Dec 1911). The skulls were left over from the 'first' Battle of Dajo(March 1906). Bud Dajo is an extinct volcano, and the battles took place inside the crater. After the 1st initial battle ended, the Americans did not bury the dead...they threw the bodies in to the trench and they were left uncovered to rot...which sparked controversy and became a famous photograph in all US newspaper that same year due to some of the dead being woman and children. Here is the photo I am talking about from the 1st Battle of Bud Dajo 1906(estimated at 900 Moros killed):


The skulls in the 1st post are remnants of these dead bodies. It is unsure of who staked them(but I have a feeling the Americans wouldn't touch them).

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

Vandoo, I have looked in to this picture in the past. From what I understand, the photo of the skulls were taken at the 'second' Battle of Bud Dajo(Dec 1911). The skulls were left over from the 'first' Battle of Dajo(March 1906). Bud Dajo is an extinct volcano, and the battles took place inside the crater. After the 1st initial battle ended, the Americans did not bury the dead...they threw the bodies in to the trench and they were left uncovered to rot...which sparked controversy and became a famous photograph in all US newspaper that same year due to some of the dead being woman and children. Here is the photo I am talking about from the 1st Battle of Bud Dajo 1906(estimated at 900 Moros killed):

The skulls in the 1st post are remnants of these dead bodies. It is unsure of who staked them(but I have a feeling the Americans wouldn't touch them).

Hi Vandoo,

As Dimasalang mentioned, the skulls are from the first Bud Dajo [pronounced bood DAH-ho] battle, on March 1906.

In Robert Fulton's Moroland book (2007), he refers to this photo in the chapter, "clean the place up":

"An unanswered question about Bud Dajo is why the Tausug leaders did not send their people up to bury their dead the next day, according to Muslim tradition and belief. It is known that many witnessed the assault from nearby hills and that some went up to view the carnage – Maharajah Indanan was one – but the dead there left where they lay, in mass graves with only the thin covering of dirt on their bodies. It may have been superstition or fear, given that this place had become such a terrible abattoir. Some said the principal datus simply did not care and were glad to be rid of their recalcitrant subjects. Or it may have been seen as a way to shame and rebuke the Americans. It certainly could not have helped matters that Capt. Koehler, unwittingly or not, had immolated sixty-seven bodies in the cotta at the top of the west trail, probably unaware that he was violating Muslim proscriptions against cremation. Maybe those slain on Bud Dajo were left unburied to be angry, unappeased, and tortured souls that might someday seek revenge.

"Shortly before Scott left for the U.S., he brought up to General Bliss the fact that the dead on the hill had never been properly buried and their shallow graves were regularly disturbed by American soldiers and sailors wanting to see the battle site and return with a few choice souvenirs. Many years later, a rather macabre photograph was deposited together with the papers of General John J. Pershing in the Library of Congress. It has written across it, “Six weeks after the Battle of Dajo” (late April) and shows about a dozen American soldiers who had lined up at least twenty skulls on top of a tree trunk spanning one of the trenches. A number of those present appear to be officers. Bliss, possibly having seen the photograph and heeding Scott’s advice, gave instructions to Scott’s successor, Col. E. Z. Steever, to “clean the place up.”

Based on Fulton's recounting of the events above, it would appear then that these skulls having been photographed just merely six weeks after the battle, were from the 67 bodies burned by Capt. Koehler on the day of the battle.

Alternatively, the skulls could have come from the other 800+ dead bodies. Because from the same book, we read:

"[Right after the battle] Wood ordered Bundy to dynamite the cottas [forts], burn all remaning structures, and have the Moro cargadores [porters] bury the dead under a light of cover of dirt."

Wood wanted to the troops to return to the camp immediately right after the battle, thus the "light cover of dirt" order. And so wild animals and birds would have easily and quickly made skeletons out of the hundreds of dead bodies lying around.

PS - This book is a treasure trove of info on Moro wars. Thanks again to the person who gave me this book -- you know who you are

[Dimasalang]

I stand corrected! Thanks Miguel for clearing that up!

[VANDOO]

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT A WAR MEMORIAL OR SOMETHING ELSE.
IF IT WAS DONE BY THE AMERICANS IT WOULD NOT BE A WAR MEMORIAL BUT IF THE MORO DID IT PERHAPS IT WAS A MEMORIAL TO THEIR FALLEN BROTHERS?
YOUR REFRENCES POINT OUT THAT IT WAS NOT DONE BECAUSE OF TRIBAL TRADITION BUT AS A RESULT OF A TERRIBLE BATTLE AND GREAT LOSS OF LIFE. BUT THE WHY IT WAS DONE AND BY WHO IS PERHAPS A MYSTERY.

IF WHAT WE SEE IS A RESULT OF THE AMERICANS CLEANING UP THE AREA I DON'T THINK THEY DID A PROPER OR RESPECTFUL JOB OF IT UNLESS THEY DID IT TO SERVE AS A WARNING TO THE MORO IN THE AREA
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD WAR BUT UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL MAN CHANGES A LOT IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND.
IN BORNEO THE SKULLS WERE KEPT HANGING IN THE LONGHOUSE, IN NEW GUINEA THEY WERE KEPT IN SKULL RACKS OR HANGING IN THE HOUSE, LOTS OF OTHER PLACES THEY WERE KEPT AROUND THE FRONT OR SIDES OF THE HOUSE. AZTEC'S IN AMERICA HAD MASSIVE SKULL RACKS SOME FOR SACRIFICIAL VICTIMS AND OTHERS FOR THE SKULLS OF THE BEST PLAYER IN THEIR BALL GAMES. THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

I stand corrected! Thanks Miguel for clearing that up!

OT: Dimasalang, in your past visits to the Phils., have you had the chance to visit Museo ng Rebolusyon [Museum of the Revolution] in Pinaglabanan? Haven't been there but I'm planning to, so I can post pics here later ...

Originally Posted by VANDOO

... IF WHAT WE SEE IS A RESULT OF THE AMERICANS CLEANING UP THE AREA I DON'T THINK THEY DID A PROPER OR RESPECTFUL JOB OF IT UNLESS THEY DID IT TO SERVE AS A WARNING TO THE MORO IN THE AREA
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD WAR BUT UNFORTUNATELY UNTIL MAN CHANGES A LOT IT WILL ALWAYS BE AROUND. ...

Thanks Vandoo for the comments.

On the politics of warfare (and still referring to Fulton's chapters on Bud Dajo), we find this [April 1906] conversation between General Leonard Wood and the Sulu headmen:

"... the Sultan observed, 'There are very few people in Jolo [Sulu], and if a fight like that [i.e., Bud Dajo] occurs many times there will be no more people left in Jolo.' The Sultan then begged Wood to, in the future, let the Jolo leadership rather than American soldiers mount any such operations against the insurgents. Wood ridiculed the idea and badgered the Sultan to admit that if they had tried to take Bud Dajo, 'it would have finished all the Moros in the attacking party ... there would only monkeys be left to live in Jolo ... A great many of our people believe that all men are descended from monkeys, and they might eventually have produced another race here.' But the Sultan turned the tables, responding, 'It is more likely that human beings become monkeys, than monkeys turn into human beings.' "

Warfare is a messy business indeed.

I'll post next pics of olden Filipino headhunters displaying their skull trophies.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

Amongst Phil. ethnic groups, the ones I know who displayed human skulls as trophies would be the Igorots.

We've seen the pics below before, but these are clearer copies (coming from that Cornell website).

Note also that human jawbones of headhunting victims also find another use!

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

IN BORNEO THE SKULLS WERE KEPT HANGING IN THE LONGHOUSE, IN NEW GUINEA THEY WERE KEPT IN SKULL RACKS OR HANGING IN THE HOUSE, LOTS OF OTHER PLACES THEY WERE KEPT AROUND THE FRONT OR SIDES OF THE HOUSE. AZTEC'S IN AMERICA HAD MASSIVE SKULL RACKS SOME FOR SACRIFICIAL VICTIMS AND OTHERS FOR THE SKULLS OF THE BEST PLAYER IN THEIR BALL GAMES. THE PICTURE MADE ME AWARE THAT I KNOW THERE WAS HEADHUNTING IN THE PHILIPPINES BUT DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHERE THEY KEPT THEIR SKULLS? A MORBID QUESTION PERHAPS BUT IT WAS A PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

Vandoo, below is the text pertaining to the drawing above of a Tinguian headhunters' feast.

Nonoy, is this true that the Tingguians mix the mashed brain with the local wine, and that the skulls were crushed and the pieces given to friends as gifts?

The scene looks like it's straight from a "B" movie so I'm just wondering whether it was a faithful account of an old practice ...

[Rick]

I'm surprised they didn't have a problem with Laughing Sickness in a tribe with such a ritual ..