The USA tightening up the knife laws ??

kronckew · 4th July 2009, 04:36 PM

i think that the main problem is that they DO ultimately want to ban all one-handed opening knives, then they can start on all folding knives next. today assisted opening, tomorrow ones with thumb studs, the day after the ones with....

by setting a precedent that an agency like the customs can effectively make it's own laws by redefining the semantics in defiance of previous judicial case history and judgements, we are going down a slippery slope. it's the death of a thousand cuts by stealth rather than a more obvious law passed by congress, or even an executive order. once you start allowing customs to make up regulations based on partisan political considerations you're stuffed, they already have their foot in the door...

customs of course only is involved in the foreign import/export of these items, but if they get away with it, what's to stop the post office or other agencies. of course the mfg. who currently import such things could set up a factory inside the U.S. to make them, creating more non-outsourced jobs. OSHA or some other agency would probably then ban them by regulation.

the price of freedom is eternal vigilance

fearn · 4th July 2009, 06:21 PM

Hi Kronckew,

I'll take the devil's advocate position again. As I understand the situation (based on the custom service's own documents), the current switchblade definition has stood up in court repeatedly. Oddly enough, they can make the slippery slope argument too. Right now, you can make a spring-opened knife that's the functional equivalent of a switchblade, except that it's not opened by a button on the handle. Why shouldn't switchblades be legal as well?

If you're worried about the being allowed to carry, I think it's important to educate people that a knife is a tool as well as a weapon. The fact that I'm carrying one poses precisely no threat to their health or well-being (why should I tell them how actively I'll defend myself if attacked?), and that my knife is useful to them during daily life? That's politics too.

There are some things I'm quite honestly bugged with AKTI about with this campaign:

--One is that it's not clear (to me, at least) whether all folding knives are on the block, or just this one type of not-quite-a-switchblade. How many knives are affected?
--Nobody's polling the US to find out how many knife owners are out there. Starting with all first responders, boy scouts, anyone working in a rural area (including a lot of environmentalists and other liberals), any tech worker (at least the blade on his multi-tool), I'd guess that we're talking about a large majority of the adult population. Outlaw all folding knives? Right. AKTI needs to point out how many people own the knives they're worried about.
--What's the upside for a politician supporting the AKTI? After all, their opponents are going to accuse them of being "soft on switchblades" if they support AKTI and all the customs law is about is the definition of a switchblade.

This is why I'd suggest that AKTI needs to talk about numbers and to put a face on this issue. Everybody owns knives, right? And given the aging population and, in the current economic unpleasantness, there are old people out there who need folding knives that are easy on their arthritic hands to open. If customs is taking the knife from Mr. Smith's crippled hands because they're worried about the mechanism, that's a really good argument for a politician.

Right now, it's just us "weirdo hobbyists" and our "dangerous" fixation on knives who are asking for protection.

Best,

F

4th July 2009, 04:36 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	i think that the main problem is that they DO ultimately want to ban all one-handed opening knives, then they can start on all folding knives next. today assisted opening, tomorrow ones with thumb studs, the day after the ones with.... by setting a precedent that an agency like the customs can effectively make it's own laws by redefining the semantics in defiance of previous judicial case history and judgements, we are going down a slippery slope. it's the death of a thousand cuts by stealth rather than a more obvious law passed by congress, or even an executive order. once you start allowing customs to make up regulations based on partisan political considerations you're stuffed, they already have their foot in the door... customs of course only is involved in the foreign import/export of these items, but if they get away with it, what's to stop the post office or other agencies. of course the mfg. who currently import such things could set up a factory inside the U.S. to make them, creating more non-outsourced jobs. OSHA or some other agency would probably then ban them by regulation. the price of freedom is eternal vigilance

4th July 2009, 06:21 PM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Kronckew, I'll take the devil's advocate position again. As I understand the situation (based on the custom service's own documents), the current switchblade definition has stood up in court repeatedly. Oddly enough, they can make the slippery slope argument too. Right now, you can make a spring-opened knife that's the functional equivalent of a switchblade, except that it's not opened by a button on the handle. Why shouldn't switchblades be legal as well? If you're worried about the being allowed to carry, I think it's important to educate people that a knife is a tool as well as a weapon. The fact that I'm carrying one poses precisely no threat to their health or well-being (why should I tell them how actively I'll defend myself if attacked?), and that my knife is useful to them during daily life? That's politics too. There are some things I'm quite honestly bugged with AKTI about with this campaign: --One is that it's not clear (to me, at least) whether all folding knives are on the block, or just this one type of not-quite-a-switchblade. How many knives are affected? --Nobody's polling the US to find out how many knife owners are out there. Starting with all first responders, boy scouts, anyone working in a rural area (including a lot of environmentalists and other liberals), any tech worker (at least the blade on his multi-tool), I'd guess that we're talking about a large majority of the adult population. Outlaw all folding knives? Right. AKTI needs to point out how many people own the knives they're worried about. --What's the upside for a politician supporting the AKTI? After all, their opponents are going to accuse them of being "soft on switchblades" if they support AKTI and all the customs law is about is the definition of a switchblade. This is why I'd suggest that AKTI needs to talk about numbers and to put a face on this issue. Everybody owns knives, right? And given the aging population and, in the current economic unpleasantness, there are old people out there who need folding knives that are easy on their arthritic hands to open. If customs is taking the knife from Mr. Smith's crippled hands because they're worried about the mechanism, that's a really good argument for a politician. Right now, it's just us "weirdo hobbyists" and our "dangerous" fixation on knives who are asking for protection. Best, F