It is not exactly a barong, but what is it?

Conogre · 4th May 2005, 04:36 PM

Here's a similar piece as your first, TVV, which I've often seen loosely grouped and called "baby barungs".
This one has MOP in the front of the scabbard, with a blade thinner than normal for a barung and yet still fully functional and with detail not usually expected in "keepsakes" or souvenier items.
Another possibility that has ocurred to me is for women as "personal protection items", being small, easily concealed and yet ornate enough to reflect caste as is often seen in male weapons.....this may be a stretch, but I've seen similar in european and Ottoman knives, so I keep the option open as at least a possibility.
Mike

TVV · 5th May 2005, 03:00 AM

Tom and Mike, you have made excellent points, thank you. I just wonder if the barong is suitable for a female dagger, as it is a slashing weapon and while the blade on mine is sharp, I guess the shape of a gunong would be more useful at that size. But I am not an expert by any means, and I like "baby barungs" regardless of what their original purpose was, as they are very well made.

Conogre · 5th May 2005, 08:15 AM

While the full sized barungs are most deffinitely slashing weapons, the thinner blades and reduced thickness of the small versions would make them equally well suited as slashers/stabbers, with the blades comparable to the small gunongs originally thought to be assasination pieces.
This is what made me think of them as a woman's protection knife, where the main object is to inflict enough damage to escape with her "honor" intact, rather than to kill outright.
In many areas, particularly those of fundamentalist muslim influence or antiquited Christian mores , once a woman is violated, it was and sometimes still is considered her "duty" to commit suicide to avoid bringing dishonor upon her family or clan.
I've run accross this attitude in today's world here in Florida in people of the "old country" that regularly travel between the two, such as to visit relatives, and was amazed at the vehemence towards surrendering "women's knives" in relation to current post 9/11 airlines regulations.
As I said, I may be way off base, but encountering such has opened my eyes towards the possibility of a weapon in contrast to the way a "civilized" westerner might view it in the present.
Mike

tom hyle · 5th May 2005, 10:23 AM

A woman is always under more threat than a man; there tends to be one more thing people want to take from her.

Ann Feuerbach · 5th May 2005, 02:59 PM

Does anybody know off hand what wood is used for the handle? Also, what metal to they tend to use on Barongs for decoration on handles?

Ann

Ian · 5th May 2005, 03:48 PM

Hi Ann:

The most common woods are banati (bunti), which is the striped wood so often seen on better quality barung hilts, and kumagong, which is like mahogany and also used for many Moro scabbards (a little darker than banati and without the stripes). I've also seen a type of ebony used on hilts, mostly from Palawan I think. Lesser grade barung may have a variety of other hard woods whose names I don't know.

The metals used on the ferrules (punto) are silver (common -- often coin silver), brass (fairly common), steel/iron (on lesser grade barung particularly), and gold (rarely). The use of gold decoration was formerly restricted to the Sultan and royal family, and was prohibited for anyone else under Moro law (that seems to have changed in recent years

). Often the gold was alloyed with base metals such as copper to form suassa. I've also seen an example of a gold wash over silver. Some post WWII examples may have alumin(i)um fittings, but these are not common.

Silver, and rarely gold, have been used also to create elaborate kakatua for some of the top end junggayan barung (see my avatar -- courtesy of our forumite Battara).

That's as much as I can tell you. Hopefully some of our Filipino forumites can add more details.

Regards,

Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann Feuerbach

Does anybody know off hand what wood is used for the handle? Also, what metal to they tend to use on Barongs for decoration on handles?

Ann

Radu Transylvanicus · 7th May 2005, 08:03 PM

Nothing but a "barong" ... I like that "baby-barong" expression ... still I preffer a "whos yoour daddy barong" in hand !

Federico · 11th May 2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Ann:

The most common woods are banati (bunti), which is the striped wood so often seen on better quality barung hilts, and kumagong, which is like mahogany and also used for many Moro scabbards (a little darker than banati and without the stripes). I've also seen a type of ebony used on hilts, mostly from Palawan I think. Lesser grade barung may have a variety of other hard woods whose names I don't know.

Just wanted to add KAMAGONG is Philippine Ebony, not mahogany.

4th May 2005, 04:36 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's a similar piece as your first, TVV, which I've often seen loosely grouped and called "baby barungs". This one has MOP in the front of the scabbard, with a blade thinner than normal for a barung and yet still fully functional and with detail not usually expected in "keepsakes" or souvenier items. Another possibility that has ocurred to me is for women as "personal protection items", being small, easily concealed and yet ornate enough to reflect caste as is often seen in male weapons.....this may be a stretch, but I've seen similar in european and Ottoman knives, so I keep the option open as at least a possibility. Mike Attached Images

5th May 2005, 03:00 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,724	Tom and Mike, you have made excellent points, thank you. I just wonder if the barong is suitable for a female dagger, as it is a slashing weapon and while the blade on mine is sharp, I guess the shape of a gunong would be more useful at that size. But I am not an expert by any means, and I like "baby barungs" regardless of what their original purpose was, as they are very well made.

5th May 2005, 08:15 AM	#3
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	While the full sized barungs are most deffinitely slashing weapons, the thinner blades and reduced thickness of the small versions would make them equally well suited as slashers/stabbers, with the blades comparable to the small gunongs originally thought to be assasination pieces. This is what made me think of them as a woman's protection knife, where the main object is to inflict enough damage to escape with her "honor" intact, rather than to kill outright. In many areas, particularly those of fundamentalist muslim influence or antiquited Christian mores , once a woman is violated, it was and sometimes still is considered her "duty" to commit suicide to avoid bringing dishonor upon her family or clan. I've run accross this attitude in today's world here in Florida in people of the "old country" that regularly travel between the two, such as to visit relatives, and was amazed at the vehemence towards surrendering "women's knives" in relation to current post 9/11 airlines regulations. As I said, I may be way off base, but encountering such has opened my eyes towards the possibility of a weapon in contrast to the way a "civilized" westerner might view it in the present. Mike

5th May 2005, 10:23 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	A woman is always under more threat than a man; there tends to be one more thing people want to take from her.

5th May 2005, 02:59 PM	#5
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Does anybody know off hand what wood is used for the handle? Also, what metal to they tend to use on Barongs for decoration on handles? Ann

7th May 2005, 08:03 PM	#7
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Nothing but a "barong" ... I like that "baby-barong" expression ... still I preffer a "whos yoour daddy barong" in hand !