Pesh, Choora ???

Rick · 30th June 2009, 03:43 PM

Terms, it's always terms .

Are they one and the same; Pesh and Choora ?
Or are they different forms ?

Pesh or Choora ? :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=karud

kronckew · 1st July 2009, 10:34 AM

i've always thought the top straight style was 'choora' and the curved bottom as 'pesh', with the larger form of the upper one as 'karud'.

of course, it's be nice to know what the ones who actually made & used them called them. (it would probably meant 'knife'

)

i did a google for 'choora' and ask.com came up with a definition of "A slur for dark skinned people in Pakistan". it is also a sikh wedding ceremony where decorative red (coral) & white (bone) bangles are tied to the bride. kinda like my iv..er bone and coral beaded 'choora'

is it possible the smaller decorated versions are thus ceremonial (tho deadly) wedding versions similar to wedding nimcha? the groom might want to carry around a smaller version on such a day rather than be encumbered with the full larger kit of karud and salawar, but being the khyber area, one would also always want to be armed.

Sikh_soldier · 1st July 2009, 11:33 AM

Hi guys,
kronckew in regards to the Choora definition you found on Google, that is indeed a term for people belonging to the caste of choora, but that is pronounced differently from the dagger, that is pronounced Chooora where the dagger is Churra.

I showed a friend of mine my Choora dagger, he does not know anything about edged weapons but he is from the tribal regions of Afghanistan/Pakistan, and he told me that in the language they speak, Choora (pronounced Churra) means big knife, whereas if his mother asks him to pass a small kitchen knife she says pass the Churri (feminine).
And he told me there is no link to a caste, a derrogatory term or anything else it just means Knife.

Hope this helps

Bally

kronckew · 1st July 2009, 12:18 PM

as suspected, it's a 'knife'

we as collectors are a lot more anal about assigning labels, which tend to gather momentum as more people use them, gaining a life of their own to the point where if i were to call it a 'pisau' (also essentially means 'knife') i'd provoke a storm of comment. i imagine a 'normal' (non-collector) native from the area would if shown a 'choora' would still call it a 'pisau'.

Rick · 1st July 2009, 02:34 PM

Okay , so this is a Choora also; not a Karud as I have assumed ?

If not, then what's the defining factor ?

So frustrating .......

kronckew · 1st July 2009, 02:38 PM

rick has culture shock.

a rose by any other name....

(i'd call yours a karud, but i'm not a pashtun - anyway it (karud) probably means 'bigger knife'

)

no relation to a karuda bird either.

Atlantia · 1st July 2009, 02:47 PM

ooh, dont these threads bring out the pedant in us all?

I always (probobly wrongly) assumed that Kard is the route of Karud which is the T spined, but still straight bladed evolution of the route type, like the one Rick has shown a rather fine example of, while when that blade becomes wider and curved it becomes the Pesh kabz.
I always call the 'Karuds' which are the more 'jagged' Afghan type like Warrens 'Choora's'.
Hmmm, makes ya think it does....

Rick · 1st July 2009, 02:58 PM

Okay ..... that's it !

My new list of Afghan choora/pesh/karud terms :

Small knife.

Medium knife.

large knife .

1st July 2009, 10:34 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i've always thought the top straight style was 'choora' and the curved bottom as 'pesh', with the larger form of the upper one as 'karud'. of course, it's be nice to know what the ones who actually made & used them called them. (it would probably meant 'knife' ) i did a google for 'choora' and ask.com came up with a definition of "A slur for dark skinned people in Pakistan". it is also a sikh wedding ceremony where decorative red (coral) & white (bone) bangles are tied to the bride. kinda like my iv..er bone and coral beaded 'choora' is it possible the smaller decorated versions are thus ceremonial (tho deadly) wedding versions similar to wedding nimcha? the groom might want to carry around a smaller version on such a day rather than be encumbered with the full larger kit of karud and salawar, but being the khyber area, one would also always want to be armed. Last edited by kronckew; 1st July 2009 at 10:48 AM.

1st July 2009, 02:34 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Name Games Okay , so this is a Choora also; not a Karud as I have assumed ? If not, then what's the defining factor ? So frustrating ....... Attached Images

30th June 2009, 03:43 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Terms, it's always terms . Are they one and the same; Pesh and Choora ? Or are they different forms ? Pesh or Choora ? : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=karud

1st July 2009, 11:33 AM	#3
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	Hi guys, kronckew in regards to the Choora definition you found on Google, that is indeed a term for people belonging to the caste of choora, but that is pronounced differently from the dagger, that is pronounced Chooora where the dagger is Churra. I showed a friend of mine my Choora dagger, he does not know anything about edged weapons but he is from the tribal regions of Afghanistan/Pakistan, and he told me that in the language they speak, Choora (pronounced Churra) means big knife, whereas if his mother asks him to pass a small kitchen knife she says pass the Churri (feminine). And he told me there is no link to a caste, a derrogatory term or anything else it just means Knife. Hope this helps Bally

1st July 2009, 12:18 PM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	as suspected, it's a 'knife' we as collectors are a lot more anal about assigning labels, which tend to gather momentum as more people use them, gaining a life of their own to the point where if i were to call it a 'pisau' (also essentially means 'knife') i'd provoke a storm of comment. i imagine a 'normal' (non-collector) native from the area would if shown a 'choora' would still call it a 'pisau'.

1st July 2009, 02:38 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	rick has culture shock. a rose by any other name.... (i'd call yours a karud, but i'm not a pashtun - anyway it (karud) probably means 'bigger knife' ) no relation to a karuda bird either.

1st July 2009, 02:47 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	ooh, dont these threads bring out the pedant in us all? I always (probobly wrongly) assumed that Kard is the route of Karud which is the T spined, but still straight bladed evolution of the route type, like the one Rick has shown a rather fine example of, while when that blade becomes wider and curved it becomes the Pesh kabz. I always call the 'Karuds' which are the more 'jagged' Afghan type like Warrens 'Choora's'. Hmmm, makes ya think it does....

1st July 2009, 02:58 PM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Okay ..... that's it ! My new list of Afghan choora/pesh/karud terms : Small knife. Medium knife. large knife .