Why Post?

ward · 25th June 2009, 06:19 PM

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Norman McCormick · 25th June 2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Hi,
Milking hard earned knowledge under false pretences for commercial gain is certainly not in the 'spirit' of the Forum to my mind. Members obviously do swap or sell on items now and then but that's all part of collecting. This is probably an emotive subject that should be addressed somewhere but possibly not under this heading.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 25th June 2009, 07:14 PM

" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking,
British arms historian and collector), that he would always
find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".

"Arms and Armour Study in Edwardian Britain"
Sid Blair and Michael Lacy, 1999

Excellent points Norman, and this is definitely a point of contention commonly faced here, as the weapons acquired and in private collections are typically the basis for our discussions. As I have noted, the gentlemanly demeanor here is certainly in most cases of highest caliber with regard to comments placed on another members weapons. In most cases where a piece is clearly a 'commercial' (trade or souk type souvenier) it is often hard to comment without the hard truth. In these instances I think the members here typically handle the matter deftly and with courtesy.
I think that we have all learned through the years through the academy of hard knocks, and most of it bear the scars of proof....in a sense I suppose we might consider this a kind of collectors 'patination' .
I believe strongly that the most important weapon an arms collector can possess is knowledge, and to never become complacent, never stop learning. This is the very reason why we are here, and why we all do what we do.

I was once told in my job, in which quick judgement calls were the 'order of the day', to make the call as best as you could with details at hand...if you were right ,it would strengthen your proficiency; if you were wrong, a lesson would be learned, and you would become even stronger. Naturally, in degree these 'calls' would vary with circumstances, but in most these ideas would apply.
A collector is by nature often impulsive, and sometimes an opportunity may be lost if action is not taken, but the more well versed they are in knowing the items they are considering, the less chance of the dreaded sting of error.

I would consider that those selling or trading arms that seek correct and accurate information to properly represent and describe those they intend to sell as prudent individuals. There is a profound difference in the laughable descriptions often with items for sale which are designed to deceive, and the typically more conservative captions which reflect true lack of knowledge.
I would only ask that those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward, and channel queries accordingly.

All best regards,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 25th June 2009, 07:28 PM

Quote, " I would only ask those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward and channel queries accordingly." End Quote.

Hi Jim,
The straightforward solutions are often the best.
My Regards,
Norman.

Atlantia · 26th June 2009, 01:37 AM

I've got to say that I don't mind people wanting to correctly ID items in preparation for selling.

Gentlemen, please don't feel like people are just using you (us) for free appraisals!
I think thats an important part of collecting and we none of us keep everything we buy. I believe that there are many reasons why someone might only choose whether they sell or not after they get the correct information about an item.
If this is a 'community of collectors' then clearly members will see possible 'bargains' or ones that they know will appeal to others, and want to acquire them 'on spec' in order to trade with other members for items that suit them better or sell to them to fund more suitable purchases for their own collections.
Why deny your friends on here information simply because it might help them achieve a good price for their items?
IMHO that doesn't exactly fit with the 'spirit' of a collecting group.
While the selling area is available, then it should be fine to ask for a clear ID in preparation for listing items there or anywhere else.

And, I humbly submit that there should be no stipulation on why such information is requested, if for no better reason that the receipt of such information may alter the owners decision to keep or sell!

From my own experience I often ask for help to ID an item BEFORE I decide if I'm going to keep it!
Examples?
Ashanti gold dust pot

: Went straight on ebay!
Albacete Dagger

: Now a prized exhibit in my collection when I'd thought I might have made a mistake in buying it before my friends here ID'd it for me!

For my own part I look back at 30+ years of collecting and know that I have traded and sold more beautiful pieces than I care to remember

A wheel lock pistol that I'll never see the like of again, a wootz Tulwar before I knew what wootz even was

literally hundreds of items. Some I needed to sell for financial reasons some I traded to keep one collection or another alive.
One thing I do know is that I could easily (with my first child on its way) find myself needing to sell everything from my many collections again! BUT, I will not mourn because there are always more beautiful things to own, and as with any antiques, we don't own them forever, we hold them briefly for future generations.

Now I do realise that I might be losing friends here, I sincerely hope that will not include those above who'se opinions I seem to be at odds with, as I do regard you as friends and respect your opinions and knowledge greatly.

Regards
Gene

Atlantia · 26th June 2009, 01:42 AM

" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking,
British arms historian and collector), that he would always
find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".

May I just add...
Could any quote be more apt?
That should be the mantra of everyone using this site!

'Don't Player hate... congratulate'

kahnjar1 · 26th June 2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking,
British arms historian and collector), that he would always
find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".

May I just add...
Could any quote be more apt?
That should be the mantra of everyone using this site!

'Don't Player hate... congratulate'

I heartily agree Gene!

KuKulzA28 · 26th June 2009, 02:26 AM

Thank you guys, well said, I'll keep it in mind, though being a novice, I am a "little child at the adult table"... I try to be as helpful as possible, but I end up asking questions more than I answer... I think sometimes people with my level of knowledge see how much more knowledgeable others are and are reluctant to speak... as the Chinese say fay hwa show jiang (don't say the obvious things so much).

celtan · 27th June 2009, 03:50 AM

I do believe it was glorious Marlene who said

"If you don't have anything nice
to say about anyone,
please come and sit by my side..."

Just kiddin'..!

Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking,
British arms historian and collector), that he would always
find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object".

May I just add...
Could any quote be more apt?
That should be the mantra of everyone using this site!

'Don't Player hate... congratulate'

Rick · 26th June 2009, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Gentlemen, please don't feel like people are just using you (us) for free appraisals!

The bottom line here is that we help identify yet do not openly give appraisals .

I would suggest that a reasonable time pass before a forum identified piece would be listed in Swap .

It just seems more right .

Not policy; just my opinion .

kahnjar1 · 26th June 2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

Yes I do agree, but that is the nature of the beast. There are obviously some more than others who do this, but (and I hasten to add that I have not done this................YET) if I were to list an item for sale about which I knew absolutely nothing, I might also be tempted to obtain some information first.
Just remember that none of us are experts and we are all still learning.
Unfortunately if there was a rule for everything, it would make posting on the Forum very difficult, both for the "Postees" and also the site Moderators!
There is a thing called the K.I.S.S principle, which means keep it simple stupid.
Lets not get over regulated!
Regards Stu

25th June 2009, 06:19 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I will say that I check who the post is from before I reply. I got a little tired of being asked about a piece and then seeing it put up for sale.

25th June 2009, 07:14 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,285	" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking, British arms historian and collector), that he would always find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object". "Arms and Armour Study in Edwardian Britain" Sid Blair and Michael Lacy, 1999 Excellent points Norman, and this is definitely a point of contention commonly faced here, as the weapons acquired and in private collections are typically the basis for our discussions. As I have noted, the gentlemanly demeanor here is certainly in most cases of highest caliber with regard to comments placed on another members weapons. In most cases where a piece is clearly a 'commercial' (trade or souk type souvenier) it is often hard to comment without the hard truth. In these instances I think the members here typically handle the matter deftly and with courtesy. I think that we have all learned through the years through the academy of hard knocks, and most of it bear the scars of proof....in a sense I suppose we might consider this a kind of collectors 'patination' . I believe strongly that the most important weapon an arms collector can possess is knowledge, and to never become complacent, never stop learning. This is the very reason why we are here, and why we all do what we do. I was once told in my job, in which quick judgement calls were the 'order of the day', to make the call as best as you could with details at hand...if you were right ,it would strengthen your proficiency; if you were wrong, a lesson would be learned, and you would become even stronger. Naturally, in degree these 'calls' would vary with circumstances, but in most these ideas would apply. A collector is by nature often impulsive, and sometimes an opportunity may be lost if action is not taken, but the more well versed they are in knowing the items they are considering, the less chance of the dreaded sting of error. I would consider that those selling or trading arms that seek correct and accurate information to properly represent and describe those they intend to sell as prudent individuals. There is a profound difference in the laughable descriptions often with items for sale which are designed to deceive, and the typically more conservative captions which reflect true lack of knowledge. I would only ask that those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward, and channel queries accordingly. All best regards, Jim

25th June 2009, 07:28 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,618	Quote, " I would only ask those dealing with weapons that are for sale simply be straightforward and channel queries accordingly." End Quote. Hi Jim, The straightforward solutions are often the best. My Regards, Norman.

26th June 2009, 01:37 AM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I've got to say that I don't mind people wanting to correctly ID items in preparation for selling. Gentlemen, please don't feel like people are just using you (us) for free appraisals! I think thats an important part of collecting and we none of us keep everything we buy. I believe that there are many reasons why someone might only choose whether they sell or not after they get the correct information about an item. If this is a 'community of collectors' then clearly members will see possible 'bargains' or ones that they know will appeal to others, and want to acquire them 'on spec' in order to trade with other members for items that suit them better or sell to them to fund more suitable purchases for their own collections. Why deny your friends on here information simply because it might help them achieve a good price for their items? IMHO that doesn't exactly fit with the 'spirit' of a collecting group. While the selling area is available, then it should be fine to ask for a clear ID in preparation for listing items there or anywhere else. And, I humbly submit that there should be no stipulation on why such information is requested, if for no better reason that the receipt of such information may alter the owners decision to keep or sell! From my own experience I often ask for help to ID an item BEFORE I decide if I'm going to keep it! Examples? Ashanti gold dust pot : Went straight on ebay! Albacete Dagger : Now a prized exhibit in my collection when I'd thought I might have made a mistake in buying it before my friends here ID'd it for me! For my own part I look back at 30+ years of collecting and know that I have traded and sold more beautiful pieces than I care to remember A wheel lock pistol that I'll never see the like of again, a wootz Tulwar before I knew what wootz even was literally hundreds of items. Some I needed to sell for financial reasons some I traded to keep one collection or another alive. One thing I do know is that I could easily (with my first child on its way) find myself needing to sell everything from my many collections again! BUT, I will not mourn because there are always more beautiful things to own, and as with any antiques, we don't own them forever, we hold them briefly for future generations. Now I do realise that I might be losing friends here, I sincerely hope that will not include those above who'se opinions I seem to be at odds with, as I do regard you as friends and respect your opinions and knowledge greatly. Regards Gene

26th June 2009, 01:42 AM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	" I was once told that it was said of Laking (Sir Guy Laking, British arms historian and collector), that he would always find something kind to say about a fellow collectors object". May I just add... Could any quote be more apt? That should be the mantra of everyone using this site! 'Don't Player hate... congratulate'

26th June 2009, 02:26 AM	#8
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Thank you guys, well said, I'll keep it in mind, though being a novice, I am a "little child at the adult table"... I try to be as helpful as possible, but I end up asking questions more than I answer... I think sometimes people with my level of knowledge see how much more knowledgeable others are and are reluctant to speak... as the Chinese say fay hwa show jiang (don't say the obvious things so much).