Sold for $482,000 inclusive of Buyer's Premium

archer · 5th June 2009, 05:15 AM

I ran across a bulletin fro the University of Pennsylvania Vol 11, Number 3 Spring of 1969. Dealer who sold it may have more but is gone until October. The bulletin has a variety of information by John Witthoft and His wife Francis Eyman. They talked about sources of meteorite for steel. Also from ship wrecks. They felt strongly that metallurgy was going on in the interior of Alaska before contact with outsiders. They identified Three sources of copper.
The Tlingits' were used to working with stone tools and sawed their copper with stone Their blades had an applied ridge. The Athabaskans Dene were actually forging and tempering copper blades in their fires. Dene type blades are voluted handled blades by 1850 steel had replaced copper blades. Back to reading some more. i was a bunch taken back by the price this fantastic knife brought, but, had to laugh at the string holding the hide on the hilt.

I got lucky enough to repatriate one from new york back to Alaska it's now about 150 miles North of where it came from originally. The Copper river where all the tasty Red Salmon come from.

Lew · 5th June 2009, 05:31 AM

Archer

Inuits did have a supply of meteorite iron from a large meteorite they made spear points and small knives from it but they were crude pieces not the highly stylized daggers we see here. It would be very difficult to forge a large knife from just using iron meteorites. Its quite brittle and must be blended with other iron and steel to form a usuable billet in order to make a large dagger.

trenchwarfare · 5th June 2009, 05:47 AM

Not trying to hyjack this thread but... Thought I would re-submit this dagger, to a different audience. David, you were very helpful. I'm having trouble believing, that it is African, as stated by so many.

I can only post the link. Maybe someone else can bring up pictures. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...orthwest+coast

Tim Simmons · 5th June 2009, 10:56 AM

Better pictures might help, ones that show the white substance more cearly. It still looks unusual to me.

archer · 5th June 2009, 04:30 PM

Well as quickly as I thought I might have found some good incite on these daggers. I find the authors discredited. link http://www.fenimoreartmuseum.org/fil...haw/search.htm This link shows other daggers and clicking the last one will bring up http://www.fenimoreartmuseum.org/fil...t1/e10554a.htm Note it discredits John Witthofts claims. Sorry, Tim, I removed most of the starchy substance with a toothpick awhile back. Here are some closeups. Sorry about bringing an oxcart into a discussion on Mercedes.

David · 5th June 2009, 08:02 PM

I don't think Archer's example is at all the same category of dagger that we are discussing here though it is interesting to see.
Your link to the discrediting of the author you cite doesn't lead to an article. Do you have another link? I am not sure what claims are discredited, but this is not the first time i have heard of meteorite as a source of iron for some of these daggers, the "Killer Whale" dagger in particular.

archer · 5th June 2009, 09:46 PM

Sorry in 1st link type in "dagger" click search. to see other daggers.
2nd link is the one (in history) that discusses stone working copper, etc.

Steve

5th June 2009, 05:15 AM	#1
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Metallurgy of the Tlingit, Dene and Eskimo I ran across a bulletin fro the University of Pennsylvania Vol 11, Number 3 Spring of 1969. Dealer who sold it may have more but is gone until October. The bulletin has a variety of information by John Witthoft and His wife Francis Eyman. They talked about sources of meteorite for steel. Also from ship wrecks. They felt strongly that metallurgy was going on in the interior of Alaska before contact with outsiders. They identified Three sources of copper. The Tlingits' were used to working with stone tools and sawed their copper with stone Their blades had an applied ridge. The Athabaskans Dene were actually forging and tempering copper blades in their fires. Dene type blades are voluted handled blades by 1850 steel had replaced copper blades. Back to reading some more. i was a bunch taken back by the price this fantastic knife brought, but, had to laugh at the string holding the hide on the hilt. I got lucky enough to repatriate one from new york back to Alaska it's now about 150 miles North of where it came from originally. The Copper river where all the tasty Red Salmon come from. Attached Images

5th June 2009, 04:30 PM	#5
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Tlingit Well as quickly as I thought I might have found some good incite on these daggers. I find the authors discredited. link http://www.fenimoreartmuseum.org/fil...haw/search.htm This link shows other daggers and clicking the last one will bring up http://www.fenimoreartmuseum.org/fil...t1/e10554a.htm Note it discredits John Witthofts claims. Sorry, Tim, I removed most of the starchy substance with a toothpick awhile back. Here are some closeups. Sorry about bringing an oxcart into a discussion on Mercedes. Attached Images

5th June 2009, 09:46 PM	#7
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Links Sorry in 1st link type in "dagger" click search. to see other daggers. 2nd link is the one (in history) that discusses stone working copper, etc. Steve

5th June 2009, 05:31 AM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Archer Inuits did have a supply of meteorite iron from a large meteorite they made spear points and small knives from it but they were crude pieces not the highly stylized daggers we see here. It would be very difficult to forge a large knife from just using iron meteorites. Its quite brittle and must be blended with other iron and steel to form a usuable billet in order to make a large dagger.

5th June 2009, 05:47 AM	#3
trenchwarfare Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 385	Not trying to hyjack this thread but... Thought I would re-submit this dagger, to a different audience. David, you were very helpful. I'm having trouble believing, that it is African, as stated by so many. I can only post the link. Maybe someone else can bring up pictures. http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...orthwest+coast

5th June 2009, 10:56 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Better pictures might help, ones that show the white substance more cearly. It still looks unusual to me.

5th June 2009, 08:02 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I don't think Archer's example is at all the same category of dagger that we are discussing here though it is interesting to see. Your link to the discrediting of the author you cite doesn't lead to an article. Do you have another link? I am not sure what claims are discredited, but this is not the first time i have heard of meteorite as a source of iron for some of these daggers, the "Killer Whale" dagger in particular.