On the subject of Arab sabres...

Iliad · 29th May 2009, 10:07 AM

Hi guys, check out this one.................
Brian

ALEX · 29th May 2009, 10:27 AM

Brian, this one has old European (English?) blade with added Amharic? script. I think it used to be on Ethiopian saber (Gurade). Is there a sitting lion (Lion of Judea) on forte?
The scabbard and handle are recent imitation of a 'Buharan' style with wire-filigree and set aghate/agate stones.

katana · 29th May 2009, 11:12 AM

Hi Iliad,
I think the blade is likely German, I believe the single G on the forte is part of the "G.G." .... a Solingen mark, often with a 'thermometer' (?) mark below. A good number of Gurades have this marking.

Regards David

ariel · 29th May 2009, 04:07 PM

I still have a real Nimcha ( " a small one" according to Elgood). It has a newly-made scabbard that is remarkably similar to this one. I got it from a guy in Lebanon ( and stupidly refused his offer to buy another one just like that), and he was very open about the new-ness of the scabbard. I think this is a cottage industry there, perhaps the same workshop. I do not see much Bukharan influence, local contemporary Levantine "style".
Only this time around the re-working was much more extensive. The blade is a trade one from Germany to Abyssinia. The rest is pure " Paris of the Levant" :-)

Michael Blalock · 29th May 2009, 09:18 PM

I would guess that this was a Gurade that was re-hilted in Sanaa, Yemen. This spiral silver strip and stone look Yemeni, so does the shape of the hilt. I would bet this was re-hilted within the last 20 years.

Jim McDougall · 29th May 2009, 10:22 PM

As extremely well noted here, this is likely relatively recent remount in Southern Arabian style as noted by Michael (I'm glad to see you in on these Arabian sabres Michael

) and in Yemeni style.
As David has well noted, this blade does look like one of the Solingen produced blades for Abyssinia in the early 20th century, often mounted on shotel and gurade. It seems many of these swords with this style mount and decoration occur in Yemen in the early 20th century and with British presence in the Gulf of Aden there were many of these weapons acquired as souveniers.

I believe that the scabbard style, as well as the silver banding, is a Hadhramati style favored from the latter 18th century on the sa'if's that were often produced in Hyderabad. It does seem that it has been suggested over the years that the wrapped silver bands around scabbard were a Bukharen feature, but I am more familiar with it on these Hadhramaut and Yemen swords.
Since Persian influence was key in Bukhara, and was of key preference in Arabia in weapons, that seems quite in line though.

Iliad · 30th May 2009, 11:17 PM

Thanks heaps for the info, I am always keen to expand my knowledge. Here are some pics of another sword, with similarities to the first, but with a straight blade. Can I assume that this also has an old blade but was refurbished in Yemen? Possibly in the same shop?
The two I have are certainly impressive items and if someone received a hard blow from them, they would definitely get at least a nasty bruise!
Brian

Michael Blalock · 31st May 2009, 07:09 PM

Very much like this one

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3002

I've seen photos of similar swords in Jambiya shops in Sana'a.

Michael Blalock · 31st May 2009, 10:36 PM

After some consideration of why there would be a lot of Ethiopean sword bades in Yemen, beyond the georaphy, I would bet that makers of better Yemeni Jambiyas imported them to salvage the Rhino hilts and then remounted the blades for additional money.

Jim McDougall · 1st June 2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Blalock

After some consideration of why there would be a lot of Ethiopean sword bades in Yemen, beyond the georaphy, I would bet that makers of better Yemeni Jambiyas imported them to salvage the Rhino hilts and then remounted the blades for additional money.

Now THAT makes perfect sense!!! I hadn't thought of that Michael, but what a perfect way to bring in rhino horn.

Reminds me of the one on the guy working in the gold mines, that every day came to the exit with a wheelbarrow full of dirt. The guards checked the dirt very carefully, but no evidence of purloined gold.
Eventually they figured it out....the guy was stealin' wheelbarrows!!!

All the best,
Jim

29th May 2009, 10:07 AM	#1
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	On the subject of Arab sabres... Hi guys, check out this one................. Brian Attached Images

29th May 2009, 10:27 AM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Brian, this one has old European (English?) blade with added Amharic? script. I think it used to be on Ethiopian saber (Gurade). Is there a sitting lion (Lion of Judea) on forte? The scabbard and handle are recent imitation of a 'Buharan' style with wire-filigree and set aghate/agate stones. Last edited by ALEX; 29th May 2009 at 10:38 AM.

30th May 2009, 11:17 PM	#7
Iliad Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 187	Thanks heaps for the info, I am always keen to expand my knowledge. Here are some pics of another sword, with similarities to the first, but with a straight blade. Can I assume that this also has an old blade but was refurbished in Yemen? Possibly in the same shop? The two I have are certainly impressive items and if someone received a hard blow from them, they would definitely get at least a nasty bruise! Brian Attached Images

31st May 2009, 07:09 PM	#8
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Very much like this one http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3002 I've seen photos of similar swords in Jambiya shops in Sana'a. Attached Images Last edited by Michael Blalock; 31st May 2009 at 07:27 PM.

29th May 2009, 11:12 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Iliad, I think the blade is likely German, I believe the single G on the forte is part of the "G.G." .... a Solingen mark, often with a 'thermometer' (?) mark below. A good number of Gurades have this marking. Regards David

29th May 2009, 04:07 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I still have a real Nimcha ( " a small one" according to Elgood). It has a newly-made scabbard that is remarkably similar to this one. I got it from a guy in Lebanon ( and stupidly refused his offer to buy another one just like that), and he was very open about the new-ness of the scabbard. I think this is a cottage industry there, perhaps the same workshop. I do not see much Bukharan influence, local contemporary Levantine "style". Only this time around the re-working was much more extensive. The blade is a trade one from Germany to Abyssinia. The rest is pure " Paris of the Levant" :-)

29th May 2009, 09:18 PM	#5
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	I would guess that this was a Gurade that was re-hilted in Sanaa, Yemen. This spiral silver strip and stone look Yemeni, so does the shape of the hilt. I would bet this was re-hilted within the last 20 years.

29th May 2009, 10:22 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	As extremely well noted here, this is likely relatively recent remount in Southern Arabian style as noted by Michael (I'm glad to see you in on these Arabian sabres Michael ) and in Yemeni style. As David has well noted, this blade does look like one of the Solingen produced blades for Abyssinia in the early 20th century, often mounted on shotel and gurade. It seems many of these swords with this style mount and decoration occur in Yemen in the early 20th century and with British presence in the Gulf of Aden there were many of these weapons acquired as souveniers. I believe that the scabbard style, as well as the silver banding, is a Hadhramati style favored from the latter 18th century on the sa'if's that were often produced in Hyderabad. It does seem that it has been suggested over the years that the wrapped silver bands around scabbard were a Bukharen feature, but I am more familiar with it on these Hadhramaut and Yemen swords. Since Persian influence was key in Bukhara, and was of key preference in Arabia in weapons, that seems quite in line though.

31st May 2009, 10:36 PM	#9
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	After some consideration of why there would be a lot of Ethiopean sword bades in Yemen, beyond the georaphy, I would bet that makers of better Yemeni Jambiyas imported them to salvage the Rhino hilts and then remounted the blades for additional money.