SAJEN kerises

[HiFi]

Only small additional information and not meaning anything, in Jogjakarta area, some people called the deder-iras keris as putut, maybe caused of the figure of the iron hilt presented like a prayer, or a human with hand position like pray. In this area, if we find this keris, better asking keris putut than asking keris sajen

Besides we known that putut also named for other form condition.

[Rick]

Any truth to the story that these were often buried near crops to assure good harvest ??

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by HiFi

... in Jogjakarta area, some people called the deder-iras keris as putut, maybe caused of the figure of the iron hilt presented like a prayer, or a human with hand position like pray. In this area, if we find this keris, better asking keris putut than asking keris sajen

Besides we known that putut also named for other form condition.

HiFi, no wonder. Even there are three words in javanese, that bear the same meaning of "keris". You may use the word "keris" as a general naming. Or more polite, you may use too "wangkingan", or "duwung" exactly for the same meaning...

Putut? Yes, you are right. In Jakarta too, keris people sometimes mentioned it as "keris putut" too, if I want to accentuate on the hilt ornament. And you may say, "keris sajen" too for general naming... But dhapur putut, that's different thing. Also dhapur of "putut kembar" (twin putut, one in the gandhik, and the other in the wadidang)...

GANJAWULUNG

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, if I may, I would like to comment upon the words for "keris", in the Javanese language.

The word "wangkingan" is the respect level of high Javanese (krama inggil) and is not the equivalent of "keris". As it has been explained to me, wangkingan can only be used when we refer to a keris that is being worn, will be worn, or has been worn, as an item of dress, by another person to whom we wish to display respect. It would be incorrect to refer to a non-active keris, or a display keris, or our own keris, or a keris in a lower hierarchical relationship as a "wangkingan".

The word "dhuwung" is high level Javanese (krama) and is a direct equivalent of "keris", but the use of this word depends upon the hierarchical relationship of the keris, or the custodian of the keris, to the speaker, thus the word cannot be used in just any situation.

Then there are the words "curiga" and "kadga", both classical Javanese and applicable in a literary context.

Please forgive me for this extension of your own post, Pak Ganja.The Javanese language is your own, and I cannot even speak Javanese with any competancy, although I can read it well enough and follow a conversation conducted in ngoko. Thus, my purpose in these comments is not to try to teach you your own language, but rather to clarify for those people who do not understand the intricacies of the Javanese language, the obstacles and difficulties in using words from that language when those words are taken out of their proper context. It would be a little silly if we all started to indiscriminately use "dhuwung", and "wangkingan", as substitutes for "keris".

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The word "wangkingan" is the respect level of high Javanese (krama inggil) and is not the equivalent of "keris". As it has been explained to me, wangkingan can only be used when we refer to a keris that is being worn, will be worn, or has been worn, as an item of dress, by another person to whom we wish to display respect. It would be incorrect to refer to a non-active keris, or a display keris, or our own keris, or a keris in a lower hierarchical relationship as a "wangkingan".

Dear Alan,
It is amazing that you are able to understand in such level of Javanese language. Of course, I must put my hat off for it... Thank you for the correction.

What i wanted to explain in my previous post is, that the word "duwung' (not dhuwung), wangkingan and yes, curiga, are words for explaining the same object. If you have a complete javanese dictionary -- not only mentioning words in one level -- then you may find such example:

keris (ngoko) = duwung (krama madya) = wangkingan (krama inggil, or krama hinggil).

The same meaning for different usage. In javanese language, there are at least three levels of using the language. "Ngoko" is for ordinary people, or ordinary usage -- including the usage of language by the higher level person, but with the same social level. Then, please use "keris" for this usage. (But usually, they prefer to use the more polite word, "duwung")

Higher level than "ngoko" is "krama madya" (medium level javanese), then you may use "duwung". For instance, if you are a common people, want to speak to a higher level person to wear keris, then please say it "would you wear this 'duwung' please," (in javanese language, of course)

The highest level is "krama inggil", or you may spell it "krama hinggil" (ha, in the javanese caraka script, is the same writing, with "a") for the word keris is "wangkingan". Yes, it would be silly if you are the common people, or people in the street, saying to another person in the street like this:

"hey, look at me, I am wearing a 'wangkingan'....," (of course in javanese language). This will be very silly. Ridiculous.

Javanese language is not easy to learn. Because, everytime you must learn one word in at least in "three stages" or "three level" of usage.

The word of "I" or "me", for instance. In "ngoko" language it is "aku". And if you speak to someone you don't know -- but the same javanese -- then you must use the word "kula" in more polite mode then "aku" for mentioning "me".

But if you speak to someone you honor -- highest level person, then you must use "dalem" or "kawula" for mentioning yourself. And it will be silly if you mention yourself as "aku" if you speak to the highest level person.

But on the contrary, the highest person -- the king for instance -- want to speak to his people, ordinary people, then he may use the word "ingsun" for mentioning the same meaning as "aku".

If the king want to say about "keris" to his people, to the socially lowest ranking, then it would be silly if he use the word "wangkingan". Because he is the highest level person in javanese society, then he may use the word "keris". And I think it is so clumsy too, if the king use the word "wangkingan" to mention keris in front of the audience of common people....

Any way, I must salute you Alan, for the highest level of understanding in javanese language...

GANJAWULUNG

[A. G. Maisey]

I thank you for your compliment Pak Ganja, but I must amend your understanding of my comprehension of Javanese; I cannot pose to possess a level of understanding which I do not have.

As I have said, I don't have a lot of difficulty with ngoko, but I prefer not to use it, because I could easily make a fool of myself. I stay with Indonesian --- or at least what passes for Indonesian in Solo---when I speak.In fact, almost everyday I learn a new Javanese word -- and I must admit, some of them make me laugh.

However, when Pak Suparman (alm) was with us, he gave me intensive instruction on all those usages of the various levels of Javanese that dealt with the keris. I have a good understanding of how to use Javanese in respect of those things to do with the keris --- but talk to me about wayang, or gardens, or cakes and my understanding is much less, especially if any level of krama is used.

I read Javanese reasonably well, but this is only because I have spent a lot of time in translation of both Old Javanese and Modern Javanese into Indonesian.

In relation to "dhuwung", I understand the correct romanised spelling to be "dhuwung", even though we will often spell it "duwung", and in pronunciation there is effectively no difference. The word "duwung" is a variation of "luwung", which means something like :- "preferable", or "it will be better if".

In Krama we have a couple of levels, but Madya is not really a level of Krama, it is an intermediary level between ngoko and Krama. Krama can be divided into Krama Inggil, which is High Krama, made so by the use of a small vocabulary of "respect" words that are substituted for the normal Krama words, and Krama Andhap which can only be used when we refer to ourself, and we substitute a small vocabulary of "humble", or "defacing" words for the normal Krama words. So, Krama Inggil and Krama Andhap are not really different levels at all, but only Krama with the addition of situational words that reflect hierarchical position in a further refinement of the hierarchy already established by use of Krama.The Javanese language is an accurate reflection of the hierarchical nature of Javanese society.

Please do not misunderstand this explanation as further evidence of my knowledge:- it is not. My knowledge in this area is a bit like the knowledge a motor engineer has of a motor:- he understands perfectly how it works, but he does not know what end of the spanner to hold in order to fix the motor. I have a very good understanding of the way the Javanese language, both Modern, and Old works, but I have not yet picked up the spanner.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Please do not misunderstand this explanation as further evidence of my knowledge:- it is not. My knowledge in this area is a bit like the knowledge a motor engineer has of a motor:- he understands perfectly how it works, but he does not know what end of the spanner to hold in order to fix the motor. I have a very good understanding of the way the Javanese language, both Modern, and Old works, but I have not yet picked up the spanner.

IMHO, seldom foreigner has a deep knowledge in multi-level javanese language as you do. Usually, they only know "ngoko" or just common javanese. And seldom know "krama" or even "krama inggil" level. I think, we javanese must respect person like you, or even like Nancy Florida, who take much attention to javanese culture...

GANJAWULUNG

[ganjawulung]

These are more pictures on hilt part of "keris sajen" or as Hifi mentioned, "keris puthut" and some shots of a keris with dhapur "puthut kembar" or twin hindhu-priest with East Javanese hilt...

GANJAWULUNG