Visayan Weapons Study

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Ian

Recent item on eBay, but not sure what it is called: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3945057787

Zel and Shelley: I have just received a reply from the seller as to the name of this particular knife. He says that it is known locally as a "Pinote."

Ian.

[tom hyle]

And we know that word as pinuti, though I've more often seen it applied to as sansibar type sword than to a talibon/garab. What is the division being drawn as to pulahan garab vs talibon? What are the structural, cultural, geographical, or historical bases of this division? It may be a somewhat artificial one, and in any event seems to me to cry out for defining; I don't understand it. Is the fully lobed pommel important in some way I'm unaware of? Is there an attempt afoot to divide weapon from tool? It seems to me that the thumb-rest is an old/obsolete feature, but are other equally old blades without it? I'm unsure. Some style feature variations I've found that seem meaningful: overall wedge-section with secondary chisel-bevel at edge vs. flat with chisel bevel vs. "high shinogi" (thicker to front edge) with chisel bevel; orientation of blade in hilt is with the flat side parralel to fingers? or is the (wedge section) blade centrally oriented? or is the spine jigged "off" to the flat way extra far to try to line up the cutting edge? Narrow tip vs. wide tip; straight tip vs. curved tip; raised edges on ricassoe; wide tang vs. nail-like (dha-like) tang; differentially hardened vs. scarf-welded edges; facetted vs. flat-faced vs. eliptical scabbard......
Talibon hilt widens toward the blade, to protect your hand; tenegre hilt narrows toward the blade, and relies on the ricassoe or a guard to protect the hand.
Some thoughts.......

[VANDOO]

LOTS OF GOOD ADVICE IN PREVIOUS POSTS
I CAN'T ADD MUCH BUT I WOULD DECIDE WHICH ISLANDS AND WHICH WEAPONS I WAS INTERESTED IN. THEN FIND SOME GOOD OLD EXAMPLES WITH GOOD PROVENANCE (PERHAPS IN MUSEUMS OR BOOKS). USE THESE EXAMPLES TO ESTABLISH A COMPARATIVE BASE LINE AND THEN YOU CAN TRY AND GROUP WEAPON TYPES WITHOUT GOOD PROVENANCE. THERE WILL BE SOME VARIATION IN FORMS WITHIN EACH TYPE AND MANY DIFFERENT REGIONAL NAMES AND NO DOUBT A FEW MAVRICKS THAT DON'T FIT WELL ANYWHERE.
IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO ASK ADVICE OF SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WRITTEN BOOKS AND DONE SIMULAR RESEARCH YOU MIGHT GAIN VALUABLE CONTACTS THERE. MR CATO AND MR ZONNEVELD COME TO MIND HERE. GOOD LUCK ON A INTERESTING PROJECT.

[KuKulzA28]

is this still going on?

[ThePepperSkull]

I am also curious about this. What ever happened to LabanTayo and Zelbone's work?

I have seen some of their youtube vids of cutting practice using modern made blades, a lot of them visayan and often times associated with specific schools (I.E. a Cebuano pinuti design which is stated to most liekly be used by the Doce Pares society, or the ginunting/talibong designs from the Dekiti Tirsia Siradas Camp.), as well as pictures of bagobo, T'boli, and mandaya bolos that Zel posted on other forums.

Seems to have just stopped posting though. I would be very interested to see any new developments on their part.

[Dimasalang]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I actually wanted to ask the same question. More research needs to be done in this area before it is too late. The following of Visayan weapons seems to be snowballing now. I'd hate to see a lot of 'false' history being spread due to the fast growing popularity. Obviously with no clear cut history and research, a lot of Filipinos will be quick to tell their own made up stories/versions on how certain weapons came about(I see this a lot now in FMA).

I hope to hear more from Lorenz and Nacho as well.

[Spunjer]

Obviously with no clear cut history and research, a lot of Filipinos will be quick to tell their own made up stories/versions on how certain weapons came about(I see this a lot now in FMA).

Actually, one of the main reason why i got into this field. I just didn't quite understand why an FMA instructor would do a demo using a moro kris... technically, one could use the kris, but you could also use a dha or a katana for that matter. Majority of FMA styles are visayan, moros practice variants of silat. They're about as similar as kung fu and western boxing....
Visayan weapons are much harder to study due to its scarcity, i reckon. Rare, those buggers

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

I hope to hear more from Lorenz and Nacho as well.

Huh?! talking to me? It's Nacho actually who's very knowledgeable in Visayan swords, among others.

But am with you. As we are able to dig up quality and verified info, we will certainly share them with everybody. Thanks.

[Nonoy Tan]

Some time ago, migueldiaz, nacho, Jude and I met each other in this forum and then decided to hold informal meetings in Manila, as we are all residents of the Philippines. Our latest meeting was held at the premises of the National Museum of the Philippines. Since the time we organized ourselves, we have been sharing collections, and collaborating to put together factual information on Philippine weaponry. Together we hope to share these information to the rest of the community in the future, as some research projects are on-going.

[David]

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

Some time ago, migueldiaz, nacho, Jude and I met each other in this forum and then decided to hold informal meetings in Manila, as we are all residents of the Philippines. Our latest meeting was held at the premises of the National Museum of the Philippines. Since the time we organized ourselves, we have been sharing collections, and collaborating to put together factual information on Philippine weaponry. Together we hope to share these information to the rest of the community in the future, as some research projects are on-going.

This is great to hear. I really look forward to seeing your research develop!

[Battara]

WWWEEEEEE!!!!!!!