Brilliant Minds Neded: a Multi Barrel Illustration of 1511

fearn · 14th May 2009, 07:35 PM

Hi Michael,

Not on your list, but I would point out that as drawn, it's topologically impossible, as the central cannons pass through each other.

Could something like this be made? Actually, yes, if you assume that the cannons are really short (as shown by their fuse holes), and if you assume tha the central frame is a wooden or metal solid lattice, rather than interlaced as shown.

That said, it's something I'd rather sell the enemy than use myself. It's neither aimable nor powerful (short barrel, relatively large ball), and the only way to fire it is to have a bunch of people standing in the central lattice and shooting outwards. Since they have no shielding, nor any place to even duck, using this weapon would be a suicide mission.

Neat design though. Maybe it has some mystical meaning

, with fire going everywhere and enlightenment subsequently occurring, or something.

Best,

F

fernando · 14th May 2009, 09:10 PM

I wish i were a brilliant mind, to coment on this one with authority. I am only brilliant enough to recognize that this is too much sand for my truck.
Fantasy, fiction ... where is the border between them and reality ? Probably the drawings of da Vinci were initially considered fantasy, namely the helicopter and the wheel lock mechanism ?!
Isn't this drawing coherent with the others from the same work (and not only)that you showed here?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7927
Maybe all these are fantasized drawings of weapons to come? Ones looking more 'implausible' than others?
You said it, multi barrel devices (cannons/mortsars/böllers) were part of the scene.
Was Flavius Vegetius Renatus a writer or an arms specialist?
Let me stop here, to avoid talking more BS.
By the way, did you people know that it was da Vinci who 'invented' the pointed projectile?
Fernando

Matchlock · 14th May 2009, 09:42 PM

Hi Fearn,

Brilliant thoughts and observations indeed - thanks a lot!

I agree absolutely with you.

Best,
Michael

Jim McDougall · 15th May 2009, 04:47 AM

Hi Michael,
Thank you for your kindness in including me in this category, which though I am not actually one, I am always honored to be in the company of the many here who are.

My first instinct in looking at this thing is....what the heck were they smokin' in those days!

It is interesting that this interesting...actually bizarre....illustration is contemporary with DaVinci, and many of the inventions he put to paper were probably considered equally bizarre in those times. Surprisingly, a number of them truly did come to fruition....thankfully this guys idea did not!

I cannot imagine how such a firearms nightmare could ever have been actually conceived as a viable invention. I cannot help but think that this illustration may have had some allegorical intent, much as Fearn has suggested. I think his points on the improbability of the dynamics of this 'invention' are well placed also, as perceived by my own very lay understanding of technical things.

It is known that many famed classical artists in these times, with DaVinci at the fore, often had unusually wry and profound symbolism and mysterious satire imbued in thier works . Naturally the pretense of "The DaVinci Code" strongly suggests this somewhat plausible potential, regardless of obvious conflicting perspectives.

As we have discussed before with multibarreled firearms in developing times, there was a distinct problem with simultaneous ignition. In many cases, from what I understand, guns such as the 'pepperbox' pistol, with six or more shots in a revolving chamber, could easily discharge all at once...probably not good for the firer of the weapon !

Fernando, interesting note about Leonardo's invention of the pointed projectile, as I always say, amazing what you have in that archives of esoterica!

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 15th May 2009, 04:52 AM

I don't know if any of you watch the discovery channel; but this year there is a show on which they build functional weapons from Leonardo's War Machine designs .

Good stuff !!

fearn · 15th May 2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I don't know if any of you watch the discovery channel; but this year there is a show on which they build functional weapons from Leonardo's War Machine designs .

Good stuff !!

Hi Rick,

Yeah, I saw one of the episodes. Maybe we can get them to build this?

It would make slightly more sense as a fireworks device than a weapon, somehow, and there are details that don't make much sense.

Still, I can't help thinking of this one as "The Cannons of Enlightenment." Once you get it, grasshopper, you will be enlightened, or something.

Best,

F

kahnjar1 · 15th May 2009, 06:36 AM

I have just come across this post and have this thought....If the thing was mounted horizontally on a central pivot, on for arguements sake a castle parapit, then it would be possible to load/reload the barrels pointing in your direction while at the same time firing those away from you, at a supposedly either scared or by now laughing enemy!

A reasonably rapid rate of fire could probably be achieved, provided of course you did not forget which barrels were loaded and which were not!
This drawing appears in several books dealing with ancient weapons.
Regards Stuart

14th May 2009, 09:10 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I wish i were a brilliant mind, to coment on this one with authority. I am only brilliant enough to recognize that this is too much sand for my truck. Fantasy, fiction ... where is the border between them and reality ? Probably the drawings of da Vinci were initially considered fantasy, namely the helicopter and the wheel lock mechanism ?! Isn't this drawing coherent with the others from the same work (and not only)that you showed here? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7927 Maybe all these are fantasized drawings of weapons to come? Ones looking more 'implausible' than others? You said it, multi barrel devices (cannons/mortsars/böllers) were part of the scene. Was Flavius Vegetius Renatus a writer or an arms specialist? Let me stop here, to avoid talking more BS. By the way, did you people know that it was da Vinci who 'invented' the pointed projectile? Fernando Last edited by fernando; 14th May 2009 at 09:27 PM.

14th May 2009, 07:35 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Michael, Not on your list, but I would point out that as drawn, it's topologically impossible, as the central cannons pass through each other. Could something like this be made? Actually, yes, if you assume that the cannons are really short (as shown by their fuse holes), and if you assume tha the central frame is a wooden or metal solid lattice, rather than interlaced as shown. That said, it's something I'd rather sell the enemy than use myself. It's neither aimable nor powerful (short barrel, relatively large ball), and the only way to fire it is to have a bunch of people standing in the central lattice and shooting outwards. Since they have no shielding, nor any place to even duck, using this weapon would be a suicide mission. Neat design though. Maybe it has some mystical meaning , with fire going everywhere and enlightenment subsequently occurring, or something. Best, F

14th May 2009, 09:42 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Fearn, Brilliant thoughts and observations indeed - thanks a lot! I agree absolutely with you. Best, Michael

15th May 2009, 04:47 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Michael, Thank you for your kindness in including me in this category, which though I am not actually one, I am always honored to be in the company of the many here who are. My first instinct in looking at this thing is....what the heck were they smokin' in those days! It is interesting that this interesting...actually bizarre....illustration is contemporary with DaVinci, and many of the inventions he put to paper were probably considered equally bizarre in those times. Surprisingly, a number of them truly did come to fruition....thankfully this guys idea did not! I cannot imagine how such a firearms nightmare could ever have been actually conceived as a viable invention. I cannot help but think that this illustration may have had some allegorical intent, much as Fearn has suggested. I think his points on the improbability of the dynamics of this 'invention' are well placed also, as perceived by my own very lay understanding of technical things. It is known that many famed classical artists in these times, with DaVinci at the fore, often had unusually wry and profound symbolism and mysterious satire imbued in thier works . Naturally the pretense of "The DaVinci Code" strongly suggests this somewhat plausible potential, regardless of obvious conflicting perspectives. As we have discussed before with multibarreled firearms in developing times, there was a distinct problem with simultaneous ignition. In many cases, from what I understand, guns such as the 'pepperbox' pistol, with six or more shots in a revolving chamber, could easily discharge all at once...probably not good for the firer of the weapon ! Fernando, interesting note about Leonardo's invention of the pointed projectile, as I always say, amazing what you have in that archives of esoterica! All the best, Jim

15th May 2009, 04:52 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	I don't know if any of you watch the discovery channel; but this year there is a show on which they build functional weapons from Leonardo's War Machine designs . Good stuff !!

15th May 2009, 06:36 AM	#7
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,813	I have just come across this post and have this thought....If the thing was mounted horizontally on a central pivot, on for arguements sake a castle parapit, then it would be possible to load/reload the barrels pointing in your direction while at the same time firing those away from you, at a supposedly either scared or by now laughing enemy! A reasonably rapid rate of fire could probably be achieved, provided of course you did not forget which barrels were loaded and which were not! This drawing appears in several books dealing with ancient weapons. Regards Stuart