Origin of the Jawa Demam hilt form

Sajen · 9th May 2009, 02:21 PM

A molar hilt from Minangkabau I show in this threat:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8761

Sajen · 9th May 2009, 02:35 PM

An ivory Pattani hilt from hippotamus tooth.
sajen

David · 9th May 2009, 05:56 PM

Hi Sajen. Thanks for the examples (and everyone else as well

) I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison.

Alam Shah · 10th May 2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison.

Beautiful piece, it would be nice to see the blade, though. Looks like a malela or carita blade.

Sajen · 10th May 2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Sajen. Thanks for the examples (and everyone else as well

) I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison.

Yes, agree with Alam, beautiful handle. Is it also from Hippo? Will be nice to see the complete keris.
sajen

David · 10th May 2009, 02:49 PM

Thanks for the comments guys. I would rather not side track this conversation with blades. Let's keep the discussion focussed on hilt forms.

Sajen, i must admit that i just don't know the ivory source.I can usually recognize marine ivory, but i am afraid that distinguishing between hippo and elephant is not something i am very good at. I was going to ask you how you knew yours was hippo.

jonng · 11th May 2009, 08:11 AM

Interesting topic Shahrial, and I would like to know more too. Who coined the term "Jawa Demam" and when was it first used? Does "Jawa Demam" really refer to a sick Javanese?
These hilts sure look like some powerful all knowing ancestral squatting figures/ heroes/ gods to me rather than a sick Javanese down with the cold/ flu. The explanation that the hands are wrapped around the legs/ body because he is shivering because of his fever is rather mischievous. Could the Javanese have coined this term to mock their old rivals kerises in the past? if so, why did the people in the malay peninsular accept such a derogatory term for their hilts? Were they trying to distance themselves from their past beliefs?

David · 11th May 2009, 02:13 PM

Good line of questioning Jonng. I have always been told that the name refers to the posture of the abstract figure. One arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to his stomach. But i suppose this jester could just as easily be a bow.

I am not convinced that the Jawa Demam is related to the squatting figures. The body positions appear quite different to me. In the squatting figures the hands are generally on the knees and they are, of course, squatting which i don't believe is the intended body position of the Jawa Demam.

Sajen · 11th May 2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Sajen, i must admit that i just don't know the ivory source.I can usually recognize marine ivory, but i am afraid that distinguishing between hippo and elephant is not something i am very good at. I was going to ask you how you knew yours was hippo.

When you look to the first pic of my handle you see on the left side of his back a line of black dots, this you only can see by hippo ivory.
sajen

9th May 2009, 02:21 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,243	#6 A molar hilt from Minangkabau I show in this threat: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8761

9th May 2009, 02:35 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,243	#7 An ivory Pattani hilt from hippotamus tooth. sajen Attached Images

9th May 2009, 05:56 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Hi Sajen. Thanks for the examples (and everyone else as well ) I have an ivory one that is sort of similar to yours so i made some quick shots for comparison. Attached Images

10th May 2009, 02:49 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Thanks for the comments guys. I would rather not side track this conversation with blades. Let's keep the discussion focussed on hilt forms. Sajen, i must admit that i just don't know the ivory source.I can usually recognize marine ivory, but i am afraid that distinguishing between hippo and elephant is not something i am very good at. I was going to ask you how you knew yours was hippo.

11th May 2009, 08:11 AM	#7
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Interesting topic Shahrial, and I would like to know more too. Who coined the term "Jawa Demam" and when was it first used? Does "Jawa Demam" really refer to a sick Javanese? These hilts sure look like some powerful all knowing ancestral squatting figures/ heroes/ gods to me rather than a sick Javanese down with the cold/ flu. The explanation that the hands are wrapped around the legs/ body because he is shivering because of his fever is rather mischievous. Could the Javanese have coined this term to mock their old rivals kerises in the past? if so, why did the people in the malay peninsular accept such a derogatory term for their hilts? Were they trying to distance themselves from their past beliefs?

11th May 2009, 02:13 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Good line of questioning Jonng. I have always been told that the name refers to the posture of the abstract figure. One arm goes across the belly and the figure is bent over as if sick to his stomach. But i suppose this jester could just as easily be a bow. I am not convinced that the Jawa Demam is related to the squatting figures. The body positions appear quite different to me. In the squatting figures the hands are generally on the knees and they are, of course, squatting which i don't believe is the intended body position of the Jawa Demam.