Pamorless keris (keleng)

A. G. Maisey · 6th May 2009, 04:36 AM

I'm sorry Ferry, but I just cannot say with any degree of certainty.

I just can't do this sort of thing from photos ---unless we're talking Segaluh or high class Surakarta, or something else that is easy to tag. I've seen Palembang blades that look more or less like this one, but because they haven't been regularly cleaned, they have always looked to have different material to this one. All I'm saying is that it might---I emphasise might--- be a possibility.

The Mn. is worth a visit. No pics inside, but you can sketch. Some nice old gold in the collection.

ferrylaki · 6th May 2009, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I'm sorry Ferry, but I just cannot say with any degree of certainty.

I just can't do this sort of thing from photos ---unless we're talking Segaluh or high class Surakarta, or something else that is easy to tag. I've seen Palembang blades that look more or less like this one, but because they haven't been regularly cleaned, they have always looked to have different material to this one. All I'm saying is that it might---I emphasise might--- be a possibility.

The Mn. is worth a visit. No pics inside, but you can sketch. Some nice old gold in the collection.

Thanks Alan, my first conclusion regarding this keris is ' it is a javanese' keris. I've made some discussion on this keris, and all of the opinion says this is a javanese keris. I always looking forward for your opinion, that's why I immediately brought this photos to this forum.
you're the first person to say that it might be a palembang keris. as you mention before 'they have always looked to have different material to this one' based on the keris material it self. most of my friends would tend to say this keris have a common material used in javanese kerises. the buntut urang is 2mm wide. about the nyebit rontal ganja, I would say this one do not have nyebit ron ganja. there is a trace of ri pandan indicate it has jalak tilam sari dhapur. a common dhapur in javanese keris.

A. G. Maisey · 6th May 2009, 05:31 AM

Yeah, might have been a tilam sari --- or it might not. I mentioned Palembang because it does have certain features that are similar to some Palembang I have seen, but Ferry, I don't think my qualification of my remarks is getting through:- I consider Palembang to be a very, very, very outside possibility, with really no hope of supporting this opinion, for the simple reason that this keris has been heavily cleaned over a long period of time, whereas the Palembang blades I have seen that are similar still had a bench finish on them. The feel and appearance of material changes over time, thus to compare pristine finish with heavily cleaned finish is not possible.

I 've said it previously, and I will say it again:- I cannot give an opinion on this keris from photographs; all I can do is agree to the visible characteristics and float a few possibilities.

I am not giving an opinion: I am suggesting that perhaps you might like to consider some possibilities other than HB.

You are the man who has it in his hand, it must be your decision.

ferrylaki · 6th May 2009, 05:52 AM

thanks again Alan.

ferrylaki · 7th May 2009, 03:50 AM

I found a comparison palembang keris for our further discussion.
how do you think?

A. G. Maisey · 7th May 2009, 04:43 AM

Looks like a nice keris.

BluErf · 9th May 2009, 03:56 AM

The anak alang above is very nice, but is rather unusual in the context of Palembang. Anak alang forms are more commonly found in Central Sumatra, worn by the Minangs, but even then, the anak alangs are of slightly different form and generally not as refined as this. Note that the hilt is new ivory, and the bit of sheath I can see on the top left corner seems to show a Palembang sampir's although it looks also a bit stiff. The hilt form does not match that sampir form. This in turn could suggest that this keris is a put together, and I do not rule out recent 'enhancements' to the keris. In which case, the use of this keris for comparison is not 'safe', in my opinion.

7th May 2009, 03:50 AM	#5
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	I found a comparison palembang keris for our further discussion. how do you think? Attached Images

7th May 2009, 04:43 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Looks like a nice keris. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 7th May 2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: irrelevant

6th May 2009, 04:36 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I'm sorry Ferry, but I just cannot say with any degree of certainty. I just can't do this sort of thing from photos ---unless we're talking Segaluh or high class Surakarta, or something else that is easy to tag. I've seen Palembang blades that look more or less like this one, but because they haven't been regularly cleaned, they have always looked to have different material to this one. All I'm saying is that it might---I emphasise might--- be a possibility. The Mn. is worth a visit. No pics inside, but you can sketch. Some nice old gold in the collection.

6th May 2009, 05:31 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yeah, might have been a tilam sari --- or it might not. I mentioned Palembang because it does have certain features that are similar to some Palembang I have seen, but Ferry, I don't think my qualification of my remarks is getting through:- I consider Palembang to be a very, very, very outside possibility, with really no hope of supporting this opinion, for the simple reason that this keris has been heavily cleaned over a long period of time, whereas the Palembang blades I have seen that are similar still had a bench finish on them. The feel and appearance of material changes over time, thus to compare pristine finish with heavily cleaned finish is not possible. I 've said it previously, and I will say it again:- I cannot give an opinion on this keris from photographs; all I can do is agree to the visible characteristics and float a few possibilities. I am not giving an opinion: I am suggesting that perhaps you might like to consider some possibilities other than HB. You are the man who has it in his hand, it must be your decision.

6th May 2009, 05:52 AM	#4
ferrylaki Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 285	thanks again Alan.

9th May 2009, 03:56 AM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	The anak alang above is very nice, but is rather unusual in the context of Palembang. Anak alang forms are more commonly found in Central Sumatra, worn by the Minangs, but even then, the anak alangs are of slightly different form and generally not as refined as this. Note that the hilt is new ivory, and the bit of sheath I can see on the top left corner seems to show a Palembang sampir's although it looks also a bit stiff. The hilt form does not match that sampir form. This in turn could suggest that this keris is a put together, and I do not rule out recent 'enhancements' to the keris. In which case, the use of this keris for comparison is not 'safe', in my opinion.