plese help identify this pamor

tom hyle · 28th April 2005, 01:29 PM

So what of the poisonousness of the "stain"? Could this be part of its origin?
Always interesting to read/hear various permutations of the claim that k(e)ris is not a weapon. Reminds of that TV show StarTrek (NewTrek) and the Captain insists angrily to his uniformed underling as they orbit a possibly hostile situation in their heavily armed spaceship "Starfleet is NOT a military organization!" Of course, what has been said on this thread is considerably more reasonable, limitting itself to the Javanese culture. If we would add modern/current to that limit it would probably be more correct; ie. k(e)ris seems to have been in former times a weapon on Java; now it (at least primarily) is not, and this is the situation that has obtained for some time.
Probably any of us can spot a modern decorator k(e)ris(-like dagger) with a resist-etched blade as distinct from a real k(e)ris, especially if it isn't etched to imitate pamor, but with writing, as is common*, however, one should be advised that many keris are still being made (and this is sometimes spoken of as reproduction or a revival of somekind, but AFAIK it never stopped), in any degree of in-between-ness from unhardenable industrial monosteel snipped out of salvaged sheet (and even plastic blades) to ones with layers, but of untraditional materials and/or patterns, to physically exact ones, to even a few with all the full ceremony and spirituality in their production. Where along this continuum one draws the (perhaps misnamed) line of "tourist"ness seems to be almost equally variable; a k(e)ris collector friend once showed me a folded, patterned, sandwiched blade with a carved naga/dragon for the midrib; a large robust blade with some gold leaf. He seemed to consider it a fairly egregious tourist piece. On the other hand, one reads that Indonesians in olden times would sometimes carry wood/bamboo-bladed k(e)ris if they couldn't afford an iron/real one (and a similar thing is seen with swords in traditional Japanese culture).

*however, I am given to understand that some, not many, but some, old k(e)ris are etched or otherwise marked with writing, AFAIK this is rare; I don't know if I've seen the real deal, and I doubt it looks much like the new ones (and it could even be a collectors' tale for all I know)..........

28th April 2005, 01:29 PM	#13
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	So what of the poisonousness of the "stain"? Could this be part of its origin? Always interesting to read/hear various permutations of the claim that k(e)ris is not a weapon. Reminds of that TV show StarTrek (NewTrek) and the Captain insists angrily to his uniformed underling as they orbit a possibly hostile situation in their heavily armed spaceship "Starfleet is NOT a military organization!" Of course, what has been said on this thread is considerably more reasonable, limitting itself to the Javanese culture. If we would add modern/current to that limit it would probably be more correct; ie. k(e)ris seems to have been in former times a weapon on Java; now it (at least primarily) is not, and this is the situation that has obtained for some time. Probably any of us can spot a modern decorator k(e)ris(-like dagger) with a resist-etched blade as distinct from a real k(e)ris, especially if it isn't etched to imitate pamor, but with writing, as is common, however, one should be advised that many keris are still being made (and this is sometimes spoken of as reproduction or a revival of somekind, but AFAIK it never stopped), in any degree of in-between-ness from unhardenable industrial monosteel snipped out of salvaged sheet (and even plastic blades) to ones with layers, but of untraditional materials and/or patterns, to physically exact ones, to even a few with all the full ceremony and spirituality in their production. Where along this continuum one draws the (perhaps misnamed) line of "tourist"ness seems to be almost equally variable; a k(e)ris collector friend once showed me a folded, patterned, sandwiched blade with a carved naga/dragon for the midrib; a large robust blade with some gold leaf. He seemed to consider it a fairly egregious tourist piece. On the other hand, one reads that Indonesians in olden times would sometimes carry wood/bamboo-bladed k(e)ris if they couldn't afford an iron/real one (and a similar thing is seen with swords in traditional Japanese culture). however, I am given to understand that some, not many, but some, old k(e)ris are etched or otherwise marked with writing, AFAIK this is rare; I don't know if I've seen the real deal, and I doubt it looks much like the new ones (and it could even be a collectors' tale for all I know)..........