Gunong?

[Spunjer]

hi,
was just wondering about this knife. it looks a lot like your everyday gunong but i hate to jump to that conclusion. it has a very subtle wavy blade and looks to be quite old. then the handle: it is not the typical bulbous type you see floating around. it looks like it's crudely carved and the wood is very light compared to the gunongs i've handled before. the scabbard seems to be made out of the same type of wood which is very light. there are MOP inlays on one side of the scabbard,and X's engravings on the other side. also, instead of your typical wide metal band, this one has these real fine wire wound around it. indonesian, maybe?

[tom hyle]

That's a gunong, alright. the blade and handle are in the "backward" configuration sometimes seen on kris sundang, which is sometimes thought to be a Visayan influence (which is more common AFAIK on gunong than on kris sundang). The MOP also resembles Visayan work, and I wonder if this may be either a non-Moro piece or a traveller; either way more likely North than South of Moroland. The thin wire bindings sunk into grooves in the scabbard are very similar to those on the sheath of a Luzon(?) sword I recently got (not a matulis, I guess; it looks like a scramasax, but with a hoof-shaped horn handle).

[Spunjer]

wow! seems like this gunong covers luzon, visayas and mindanao. how old do you think it is, and you reckon it's a tourist piece???

[tom hyle]

I'm not sure; why do you suspect a decorator piece? How thick/solid is the blade? The Visayan MOP I've seen with those jagged edges is wwII or later. The sheath appears to have been carved for a long central (rattan?) wrap, now missing, and the wires are likely to be a later addition, but I wouldn't jump to thinking a "Western"/foreign one. It's not from Luzon, of course, but that's where I've most recently seen a sheath bound like this with industrial wire from. It may well be Moro, and I haven't anything solid against; it's mainly the sheath; it's unusual for a gunong, but may be like some seen on Moro kris sundang. I do think it's important that gunong is not a strictly Moro weapon; I've seen some pretty definitely Lumad ones, and currently own one that is pretty definitely old and more northern PI (Visayan? accessible pictures do exist; ask where if you're interested; there's a bad "shot" or two I took of it on a thread that's either early on this forum or late on the old one, called something like "mysteries, projects, etc."); I doubt they'd call it a gunong that far into the Spanish Empire, as it were, but that wouldn't make it not be a gunong......

[Conogre]

It looks like an authentic gunong to me, with my guess being an actual Moro piece from Mindenao (sp? sorry).
I'd suspect it of being early 1900's, maybe 20's or 30's by the hilt shape and blade configuration.
Mike

[tom hyle]

Late on the old forum: "mysteries, projects, etc." Octagon handle with same type pommel we've recently seen on a (batless/simplified variant) bathead-type parang nabur, and a horn crossguard, but tang is full length....

[Battara]

I'm thinking WWII gunong, but this is a type I have not seen much of.

[Federico]

Spunjer is the blade hardened? I have a piece with a similar hilt and guard, but the balde is junk. Features aluminum bands on the scabbard. MOP may indicate WWII era.

[Spunjer]

federico,
yes the blade is hardened. this came from the collection of someone by the named of marcel gibrat, who was an art restorer for the Metropolitan Museum of Art from 1957 to 1965. i don't if any of you are familiar with that name. btw, is MOP a dead giveaway for a mid 20th cent. filipino weapon? i'm not just talking about this gunong, but other weapons such as moro and visayan stuff as well. just curious...

[Ian]

Spunjer:

MOP may have been used earlier than WWII on scabbards, but I have not seen a convincing example. Perhaps others have.

Ian.

[tom hyle]

It seems like one sees it on older kris sundang and barong scabbards? It's certainly not the MOP per se that I for my part was citing as Visayan-looking nor as modern, but the manner in which it is worked, in the pointy shapes with jagged edges.

[Federico]

MOP is like any other dating feature/guess, it is not complete on its own, but can provide a hint. There are definitely swords pre-WWII from all over PI that feature MOP. I have seen some on scabbards from the 30s (notably talibong/garab/ok I forgot the last newest term for these weapons being bandied about), and earlier. But what sets apart the older use of MOP, at least in those piece that I have encountered, has been the usage. Usually alot more sparingly, and not as prolific as post WWII pieces. Hence the maybe part in my earlier comment. Its presence may indicate WWII era or later, but it is sparing enough in its usage where it could be older. I dunno, thats just how I feel about it, never feel certain, and Im usually just guessing and spouting stuff out my behind (ooh killing my own credibility here). You can always do what I normally do at home, hold the piece, and let it decide for itself what age it is and where its from. Not an exact science, ok not a science or methodology at all, but it helps me sleep at night in lieu of burning questions

[Battara]

Federico is right. MOP was used earlier, like the turn of the century. Other clues help in pinning down the date. My basis for attributing this to early to mid 20c is the workmanship of the scabbard and hilt overall. It is possible that the blade is earlier, but the rest is a different matter. For example, I have seen such scabbard workmanship like this on mostly (and up to this point only) mid 20c examples. The cut of MOP is not the type of quality used in earlier pieces. For instance check out an earlier discussion and pics of a kalis I have that has MOP and is turn of the century:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001825.html