sundang

Sajen · 11th March 2009, 03:43 AM

Hello,
not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described.
And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade.
Regards,
sajen

David · 11th March 2009, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello,
not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described.
And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade.
Regards,
sajen

Sajen, i am pretty sure that this is not a philippine blade and that this is probably the right place to post this. Never seen a Malay sundang with quite the same ricikan though. But i'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is a keris of Malay origin, not a Moro blade at all.

Karset, i can't tell from the photos, is the pesi round or oval or is it flat?

Amuk Murugul · 11th March 2009, 07:31 AM

Hullo everybody,

From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier.

Best,

karset · 11th March 2009, 11:54 AM

Sajen> Greneng work of this blade are one of reason i take this sundang.
David> Pesi is flat,,,like golok or pedang. can u tell me why u asking that?
Amuk> ceremonial, or symbol status?
Moro, malay,Borneo,,,,?

kai · 11th March 2009, 10:05 PM

Hello karset,

Nice catch! What are the measurements of this blade?

Once again, I don't think that exiling keris sundang to the main forum does make any sense (and even less to separate Indo from Moro sundang...). It doesn't seem like the main forum will need to close down due to inactivity if all Moro kris threads move over here either - keris unite, I say!

Regards,
Kai

asomotif · 11th March 2009, 10:19 PM

Some cleaning would be helpfull.
and the pictures just a little bit sharper.

Nice blade.
Can you make a picture of the top of the ganja ?

ganjawulung · 17th March 2009, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Once again, I don't think that exiling keris sundang to the main forum does make any sense (and even less to separate Indo from Moro sundang...). It doesn't seem like the main forum will need to close down due to inactivity if all Moro kris threads move over here either - keris unite, I say!

I agree with Kai's idea, keris unite. Comparison is a good way to learn this keris world. And sundang form -- even it is a Moro sundang blade -- is more keris than "pedang" (sword?). Why not use this type of blade as a comparison for keris form?

About the blade. I found this Karset's blade here very interesting. Especially the tail part of the blade -- I think I could not say it as 'greneng' -- really unique. A "birdlike" greneng, if we could say it. But overall, this is still a sundang -- with square tang (I choose not to say 'peksi'), and the bending straight of the blade. Typical a sundang form. And also the form of the blade's tip, in javanese (sorry again) we say it, the type of "ngudhup gambir" tip...

Anyway, Karset's sundang is old and beautiful...

GANJAWULUNG

Marcokeris · 17th March 2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

....Anyway, Karset's sundang is old and beautiful...

GANJAWULUNG

old and beautiful

kai · 12th March 2009, 01:17 AM

Hello Amuk,

Quote:

From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier.

Hmm, IMVHO the scroll work is way to fancy for a 19th century piece, much less for a 18th c. piece (regardless of origin, I suppose).

I also have no clue what features would suggest a Sabah origin? AFAIK, most blades from there are obviously of traditional Sulu style with a notable minority of Mindanao style blades thrown in (trade as well as Illanum connection). Anyway, users of these kris would be Moro with close (political and economical) ties to the Sulu sultanate. Not much room for ideosyncratic styles, I guess. Even early collected pieces from western collections with provenance from other regions on Borneo (mainly Kalimantan Timur and Brunei) seem to exhibit conservative Moro styles rather than unique variations.

OTOH, the base features of this blade include several details which do not seem to be Moro at all (will try to edit a pic to show the details I mean). My bet would be Sumatra but I wouldn't rule out the Peninsula either.

Incidentally, the closest to the greneng of this piece seem to be exhibited by Sharial's keris:

More pics here!
Discussion on this keris.

Cleaning and etching this keris sundang blade may yield additional insights into this mystery, I guess.

Regards,
Kai

karset · 12th March 2009, 01:22 PM

blade 51 cm / 20 inch.
Pesi 7cm / 3 inch.
Ganja 10cm/ 4 inch.
I will clean the blade,,and go back, hope i dont distrubing.

karset · 16th March 2009, 05:42 AM

after some day in coconut bath,,,,not too clean.
"condong leleh" of this sundang i feel not same with moro,but im not sure

. . i need to know region of this blade,only too know model of handle and sheath.
if this one is moro feel free to delete this thread,,,i will bring it to our friend at another forum.

kai · 16th March 2009, 08:49 AM

Hello karset,

Laminations are present but I don't see enough details to examine the construction of the blade in detail. It's not necessary to do a full warangan treatment - could you please try a mild etch (lime or vinegar will usually do) though? Thanks! BTW, I still think this is an Indonesian/Malay keris sundang; going for a waragan treatment would seem ok to me if you prefer a higher contrast.

Quote:

if this one is moro feel free to delete this thread

Nah, no worries: The moderators can move a thread to another subforum if deemed necessary.

Regards,
Kai

16th March 2009, 05:42 AM	#11
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	here after some day in coconut bath,,,,not too clean. "condong leleh" of this sundang i feel not same with moro,but im not sure . . i need to know region of this blade,only too know model of handle and sheath. if this one is moro feel free to delete this thread,,,i will bring it to our friend at another forum. Attached Images

11th March 2009, 03:43 AM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hello, not my field but look's very interesting, I've never seen a "greneng"-form like this by a Moro-blade. Seems to be a good and old blade. Other members can tell you more for sure. Maybe try to clean it like in some threads described. And sorry, I think it's the wrong place for a philippine blade. Regards, sajen

11th March 2009, 07:31 AM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo everybody, From the photos, my first guess is that the blade was made for a lesser notable (possibly ceremonial) from Sabah/North Borneo. Age probably 18thC or earlier. Best,

11th March 2009, 11:54 AM	#4
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	Sajen> Greneng work of this blade are one of reason i take this sundang. David> Pesi is flat,,,like golok or pedang. can u tell me why u asking that? Amuk> ceremonial, or symbol status? Moro, malay,Borneo,,,,?

11th March 2009, 10:05 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello karset, Nice catch! What are the measurements of this blade? Once again, I don't think that exiling keris sundang to the main forum does make any sense (and even less to separate Indo from Moro sundang...). It doesn't seem like the main forum will need to close down due to inactivity if all Moro kris threads move over here either - keris unite, I say! Regards, Kai

11th March 2009, 10:19 PM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Some cleaning would be helpfull. and the pictures just a little bit sharper. Nice blade. Can you make a picture of the top of the ganja ?

12th March 2009, 01:22 PM	#10
karset Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	blade 51 cm / 20 inch. Pesi 7cm / 3 inch. Ganja 10cm/ 4 inch. I will clean the blade,,and go back, hope i dont distrubing.