Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

Matchlock · 26th February 2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kisak

I know of one such sword having been found in Sweden (Västerås), a modern copy can be seen here: http://histvarld.historiska.se/histv...skn_balte.html
http://histvarld.historiska.se/histv...d/IMG_2948.jpg

Summing up the information in the text, it's believed to be from ca 1520-30, is of bastard sword size, and marries a grosse messer blade to a katzbalger guard. The original grip was lost, and this one is a guess based upon a similar messer in the Wallace collection. Probably German in origin. It's called kaninholmssabeln ("the Kaninholm saber"),which I guess could mean that it was found at an island known as Kaninholmen.

Kisak,

Could you please post pictures of the original piece and let us know where it is preserved?

Sorry but I have never relied on replicas as a basis for substantial assessment. In most cases they prove to be nothing but relatively free interpretations of the originals and give way to fantasy, which is far from scholarly treatment. I am not saying that the piece you posted cannot be an exemption to the rule and be quite an exact copy but I'd still like to see images of the "real" thing.

Michael

broadaxe · 26th February 2009, 10:01 PM

Kisak, I would like very much to see a pic of the original piece. The replica in the link is weird, to say the least: very plain hilt, blade looks somewhat japanese (!). I'm not suggesting it is a fantasy piece but we do have to see the original.

kisak · 27th February 2009, 03:13 AM

I'm afraid I haven't been able to track down any photographs of the original (wouldn't mind seeing them myself). As the link goes to a site maintained by the Historical Museum in Stockholm I doubt the sword is fabricated entirely, but of course it's not exactly a solid source either.

Gonzalo G · 8th March 2009, 06:15 AM

!Very interesting material! Thank you, Matchlock! You always bring good documental contributions.
Regards

Gonzalo

Matchlock · 8th March 2009, 02:09 PM

Thank you, Gonzalo,

Historic sources of illustration are the most important thing when it comes to research and dating of original pieces.

Michael

Matchlock · 11th March 2009, 04:58 PM

A very good Katzbalger, ca. 1500-10, retaining its original blackened hilt, the blade struck with a Gothic minuscule p mark, overall length 118 cm (!).

Provenance: Sotheby's London, June 20, 1929 (800 USD), bought by Wiliam Randolph Hearst and sold again Galerie Fischer, Lucerne, Switzerland, Nov 27, 1961, lot 33 (estimate 2,500 SFr; I do not know what it went for).

Michael

celtan · 12th March 2009, 03:52 AM

Is this P related to the one we often see in Swedish blades?

Manuel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

A very good Katzbalger, ca. 1500-10, retaining its original blackened hilt, the blade struck with a Gothic minuscule p mark, overall length 118 cm (!).

Provenance: Sotheby's London, June 20, 1929 (800 USD), bought by Wiliam Randolph Hearst and sold again Galerie Fischer, Lucerne, Switzerland, Nov 27, 1961, lot 33 (estimate 2,500 SFr; I do not know what it went for).

Michael

11th March 2009, 04:58 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A very good Katzbalger, ca. 1500-10, retaining its original blackened hilt, the blade struck with a Gothic minuscule p mark, overall length 118 cm (!). Provenance: Sotheby's London, June 20, 1929 (800 USD), bought by Wiliam Randolph Hearst and sold again Galerie Fischer, Lucerne, Switzerland, Nov 27, 1961, lot 33 (estimate 2,500 SFr; I do not know what it went for). Michael Attached Images

26th February 2009, 10:01 PM	#2
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Kisak, I would like very much to see a pic of the original piece. The replica in the link is weird, to say the least: very plain hilt, blade looks somewhat japanese (!). I'm not suggesting it is a fantasy piece but we do have to see the original.

27th February 2009, 03:13 AM	#3
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	I'm afraid I haven't been able to track down any photographs of the original (wouldn't mind seeing them myself). As the link goes to a site maintained by the Historical Museum in Stockholm I doubt the sword is fabricated entirely, but of course it's not exactly a solid source either.

8th March 2009, 06:15 AM	#4
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	!Very interesting material! Thank you, Matchlock! You always bring good documental contributions. Regards Gonzalo

8th March 2009, 02:09 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Thank you, Gonzalo, Historic sources of illustration are the most important thing when it comes to research and dating of original pieces. Michael