Soul of the Keris

[Jussi M.]

Keris 1, Mike Tyson 0



Thanks,

J

[Pusaka]

That's one foxy lady

Well the Soul of Keris is the name of the Keris fighting dvd, which strangely enough is about keris fighting. I was talking about keris fighting also so it is relevant. To say keris fighting is not relevant to the keris is like saying sword fighting has nothing to do with swords.

I dont think PenangsangII was talking about the element of surprise, I understood that he was talking about Ilmu which is the esoteric use of the keris in combat.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

That's one foxy lady

Well the Soul of Keris is the name of the Keris fighting dvd, which strangely enough is about keris fighting. I was talking about keris fighting also so it is relevant. To say keris fighting is not relevant to the keris is like saying sword fighting has nothing to do with swords.

I dont think PenangsangII was talking about the element of surprise, I understood that he was talking about Ilmu which is the esoteric use of the keris in combat.

Oh, i see. I guess i didn't pay attention to the name of the video.I don't think anyone would say that keris fighting wasn't relevant to the keris.
Regardless, in our discussions of keris fighting it still seems rather pointless to compare keris to weapons of war. A keris would never be considered a first choice for the battlefield. It is a personal sidearm. In the day-to-day life of indonesians of yesteryear i would image that in self-defense it would be very likely that keris would end up matched against keris anyway. In such situations it it is a fine weapon of self defense.
I was responding to Lew's story about the NYC subway in regards to the element of surprise.

[Pusaka]

As a weapon I think the design of the keris sajen is better. The handle being forged from iron and being one with the blade seams a much sturdier design, I wonder why later keris did not develop the design further?

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

As a weapon I think the design of the keris sajen is better. The handle being forged from iron and being one with the blade seams a much sturdier design, I wonder why later keris did not develop the design further?

Yes, but generally weren't the hilts on keris meant for fighting fixed to the pesi with resin?

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by David

Yes, but generally weren't the hilts on keris meant for fighting fixed to the pesi with resin?

Yes I heard resin and hair/string? I actually have never seen a keris with resin fixing the handle to the pesi. Even if this was done the pesi is a point of weakness as its such a thin bit of metal, a solid metal handle would be better I would think.

If I were to make a few changes to the keris I would make perhaps three. I would forge the handle and blade as one, serrate the blade so it would be better for slashing and change the shape of the gadjah to a small hook so it can slash like a miniature krembit.

[PenangsangII]

sorry, a little bit off track..... keris is first & foremost a weapon. I think a lot of people agreed with this fact in some of the old threads. When i talked about "self defense" surely it meant keris wasnt the 1st choice weapon in war.

Regarding the esoteric value in a keris for fighting, yes the "isian" may help it's owner somewhat, but the decisive factor still rests with the owner.

I'm not sure where you come from Pusaka, but I live within the keris culture, Malay peninsula, sumatra & Bugis keris culture..... keris is still regarded as "king of weapon" in this part of the world.

I dont know where you get the idea of my having "8 points ilmu" which coincidently resembling a a keris combat philosophy in the silat i practise called "lapan penjuru angin bermata satu". Do I know you?

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

If I were to make a few changes to the keris I would make perhaps three. I would forge the handle and blade as one, serrate the blade so it would be better for slashing and change the shape of the gadjah to a small hook so it can slash like a miniature krembit.

hmmm....my guess is that it would no longer be a keris then.
Personally i wouldn't change a thing.