nimcha with "extended" ricasso

stephen wood · 6th February 2009, 11:05 PM

...it's peened and rounded off very smoothly. It's possible to see the circular end of the tang in the centre of the pommel - which is rather like a brazil nut pommel. No visible markings, signs of old sharpening. What do you mean by "walls"?

Jim McDougall · 6th February 2009, 11:26 PM

This is probably one of the most unusual Moroccan sa'if ('nimchas') I have seen, in its very workmanlike appearance. That is, it is almost a nimcha produced industrially, by the numbers. The entire piece is rather undimensional, and appears to have been produced in a munitions sense. The guard being welded to the blade would make the sword quite unservicable, that is unable to undergo repairs or alterations. These swords were typically hilted locally and indeed using European blades. There is a possibility of this being a theatrical piece I would imagine, as it would present the appearance of a Moroccan sa'if, though without the unmistakeable craftsmanship usually seen in these hilts.

The long ricasso, and square blocked channels or fullers are atypical of any blades I have ever seen, they usually are rounded as the tool is withdrawn from the blade.

A most interesting anomaly, and look forward to hearing if anyone else has seen anything like this.

All best regards,
Jim

TVV · 7th February 2009, 01:03 AM

Could it simply be missing the hilt? It is not unimaginable that a horn hilt may have broken into several pieces, especially if it was rhino and somebody wanted the material for another use (say, Chinese traditional medicine).
Regards,
Teodor

stephen wood · 7th February 2009, 01:28 AM

...yes, I'm sure that it originally had a grip. It does seem rather old - it has an archaic feel to it. The grip must have simply broken or fell apart.

katana · 7th February 2009, 01:38 AM

The guard on this one seems very similar...

http://therionarms.com/sold/therionarms_c473.html

stephen wood · 7th February 2009, 02:03 AM

...yes it does. I understand that the Maghreb examples have more substantial iron/steel guards. Did I mention evidence of sharpening?

I wonder if this gentleman has been posted here before?

Jim McDougall · 7th February 2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...yes it does. I understand that the Maghreb examples have more substantial iron/steel guards. Did I mention evidence of sharpening?

I wonder if this gentleman has been posted here before?

Dont recall if this has been posted before, but its a great illustration!
Interesting noting the 17th century attribution also...reveals how early this well established hilt form has been around. A great deal of pride and certain affection went into fashioning these hilts by Maghreb armourers, and even the simpler hilts reflected skilled workmanship.
It is also interesting to note that the 'nimcha' was even known in England in these times, and wealthy merchants and nobles had acquired these in some cases in trade with Maghreb ports. This contact was not without issue, as it is known that 'Barbary Pirates' raided as far as the English coast and of course even farther north.

Thanks for noting the sharpening.....that would hopefully eliminate the theatrical suggestion I had noted

All best regards,
Jim

stephen wood · 7th February 2009, 02:04 AM

6th February 2009, 11:05 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...it's peened and rounded off very smoothly. It's possible to see the circular end of the tang in the centre of the pommel - which is rather like a brazil nut pommel. No visible markings, signs of old sharpening. What do you mean by "walls"? Attached Images Last edited by stephen wood; 6th February 2009 at 11:48 PM.

7th February 2009, 02:03 AM	#6
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...yes it does. I understand that the Maghreb examples have more substantial iron/steel guards. Did I mention evidence of sharpening? I wonder if this gentleman has been posted here before? Attached Images Last edited by stephen wood; 7th February 2009 at 11:27 AM.

7th February 2009, 02:04 AM	#8
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Last edited by stephen wood; 7th February 2009 at 02:28 AM.

6th February 2009, 11:26 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	This is probably one of the most unusual Moroccan sa'if ('nimchas') I have seen, in its very workmanlike appearance. That is, it is almost a nimcha produced industrially, by the numbers. The entire piece is rather undimensional, and appears to have been produced in a munitions sense. The guard being welded to the blade would make the sword quite unservicable, that is unable to undergo repairs or alterations. These swords were typically hilted locally and indeed using European blades. There is a possibility of this being a theatrical piece I would imagine, as it would present the appearance of a Moroccan sa'if, though without the unmistakeable craftsmanship usually seen in these hilts. The long ricasso, and square blocked channels or fullers are atypical of any blades I have ever seen, they usually are rounded as the tool is withdrawn from the blade. A most interesting anomaly, and look forward to hearing if anyone else has seen anything like this. All best regards, Jim

7th February 2009, 01:03 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Could it simply be missing the hilt? It is not unimaginable that a horn hilt may have broken into several pieces, especially if it was rhino and somebody wanted the material for another use (say, Chinese traditional medicine). Regards, Teodor

7th February 2009, 01:28 AM	#4
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	...yes, I'm sure that it originally had a grip. It does seem rather old - it has an archaic feel to it. The grip must have simply broken or fell apart.

7th February 2009, 01:38 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	The guard on this one seems very similar... http://therionarms.com/sold/therionarms_c473.html