Can anyone read Japanese?

Atlantia · 3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM

Hmmm, I'm not being much help here. I can see from others wher I can find a partial or full translation that the fact that this one starts with the 'Tenka-Ichi' prefix then the rest is probobly going to be makers name, clan name, the name of the place where it was made, and possibly the region.
LOL, a date wuould have been nice!
I did find one site with a mention of these square ones and it said 'The Kaku (square) type is unique in that they are seldom seen.'

Tantalisingly close!!! Very happy to have got so much info on my little mirror already.

Regards
Gene

stekemest · 4th January 2009, 12:11 AM

Well, it doesn't look too old to me. Probably late edo to meiji, 1800-1900. Unfortunately, I haven't had much to do with kagami, so I can't really date it...
stm

drdavid · 4th January 2009, 01:03 AM

I think the 4th and 5th radicals are Ki meaning tree/wood and Itsu/Otsu meaning second or latter. These are radicals 75 and 5 using the New Nelson Japanese/English character dictionary.

If you just take the initial 3 radicals 天下一 , this would also translate as the best on earth, then you have the ki radical 木 for wood or tree, I cannot figure where this fits into the scheme of things and then 乙村 which could translate as Otomura which is a town in Nara province, unfortunately nowhere near Inaba that I can see. I suspect a native japanese speaker could enlighten us pretty quickly
cheers
David

stekemest · 4th January 2009, 01:33 AM

Yes, I thought 4 and 5 should be one character, but probably you really have to read them seperately. I just can't figure out the meaning then. Otomura could also be a name, but what about the moku/boku/ki...?

Peter

Atlantia · 4th January 2009, 06:43 PM

Welcome David,

A couple of areas are a little indistinct, perhaps a larger picture would be clearer? It reallly hard to photograph clearly unfortunately.
Thanks for helping us
Gene

Atlantia · 4th January 2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stekemest

Well, it doesn't look too old to me. Probably late edo to meiji, 1800-1900. Unfortunately, I haven't had much to do with kagami, so I can't really date it...
stm

Well, some years ago I bought it at a car boot sale from a chap who was selling a collection of brass items hed collected over many years, I didn't even initially notice it as I was looking at some Hindu figures and when I did spot it I didn't have a clue what it was but liked the hue of the metal. Once I figured out it must be a mirror I thought it would probobly be a souvenier from during the occupation!
So really any older than that is a bonus! lol

Gene

migueldiaz · 5th January 2009, 01:34 AM

Hi Gene,

You're most welcome and the pleasure is mine too

Ok, I've just received the response of my Japanese friend, and this is direct from Tokyo and this would supplement what Stekemest and Drdavid have mentioned --

He says that the name of the manufacturer is inscribed at the backside of the mirror. I'll ask him later to elaborate on this.

He also "guesses" that the mirror was made around 110 to 200 years ago. Don't know whether "110" was a typo and whether he meant "100".

As for the 10 characters, his preliminary reading is: [a] 1st to 3rd Kanji is "TENKA ICHI"; [b] 6th to 7th Kanji is "INBA"; and [c] 9th to 10th Kanji is "SHIGE YOSHI".

Again I'll ask him later what would be the English translation and/or transliteration of the above.

More later ...

celtan · 5th January 2009, 05:36 AM

I though that kanji were identical for japanese and chinese, the difference being how they are pronounced, that is, the sounds associated to them.

stekemest · 5th January 2009, 10:25 AM

That's right celtan, but the combination of characters (as the grammar etc) differ. And Chinese mirrors look totally different; more ornamental (as everything else in Chinese decorative art).
"SHIGE", that's interesting. But I still wonder what that tree/second/mura-combination means. Still guess it's a name.

stm

Freddy · 5th January 2009, 04:54 PM

I asked Chieko, the Japanese wife of a distant relative, and she came up with the following translation :

From top to bottom she reads 11 characters

1 = TEN

2 = KA

3 = ICHI

4 & 5 = MATSU

6 = MURA

7 = INA

8 = BA

9 = KAMI

10 = SHIGE

11 = YOSHI

The two last characters are the maker's first name : SHIGEYOSHI.

INABA is the name of the town or village, which is now called TOTTORI

She thinks this piece was made between 1626 an 1747. Some of the chararcters used on this mirror are old characters from the Edo-period.

3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hmmm, I'm not being much help here. I can see from others wher I can find a partial or full translation that the fact that this one starts with the 'Tenka-Ichi' prefix then the rest is probobly going to be makers name, clan name, the name of the place where it was made, and possibly the region. LOL, a date wuould have been nice! I did find one site with a mention of these square ones and it said 'The Kaku (square) type is unique in that they are seldom seen.' Tantalisingly close!!! Very happy to have got so much info on my little mirror already. Regards Gene

4th January 2009, 12:11 AM	#2
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	Well, it doesn't look too old to me. Probably late edo to meiji, 1800-1900. Unfortunately, I haven't had much to do with kagami, so I can't really date it... stm

4th January 2009, 01:03 AM	#3
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	I think the 4th and 5th radicals are Ki meaning tree/wood and Itsu/Otsu meaning second or latter. These are radicals 75 and 5 using the New Nelson Japanese/English character dictionary. If you just take the initial 3 radicals 天下一 , this would also translate as the best on earth, then you have the ki radical 木 for wood or tree, I cannot figure where this fits into the scheme of things and then 乙村 which could translate as Otomura which is a town in Nara province, unfortunately nowhere near Inaba that I can see. I suspect a native japanese speaker could enlighten us pretty quickly cheers David

4th January 2009, 01:33 AM	#4
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	Yes, I thought 4 and 5 should be one character, but probably you really have to read them seperately. I just can't figure out the meaning then. Otomura could also be a name, but what about the moku/boku/ki...? Peter

4th January 2009, 06:43 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Welcome David, A couple of areas are a little indistinct, perhaps a larger picture would be clearer? It reallly hard to photograph clearly unfortunately. Thanks for helping us Gene

5th January 2009, 01:34 AM	#7
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Hi Gene, You're most welcome and the pleasure is mine too Ok, I've just received the response of my Japanese friend, and this is direct from Tokyo and this would supplement what Stekemest and Drdavid have mentioned -- He says that the name of the manufacturer is inscribed at the backside of the mirror. I'll ask him later to elaborate on this. He also "guesses" that the mirror was made around 110 to 200 years ago. Don't know whether "110" was a typo and whether he meant "100". As for the 10 characters, his preliminary reading is: [a] 1st to 3rd Kanji is "TENKA ICHI"; [b] 6th to 7th Kanji is "INBA"; and [c] 9th to 10th Kanji is "SHIGE YOSHI". Again I'll ask him later what would be the English translation and/or transliteration of the above. More later ...

5th January 2009, 05:36 AM	#8
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	I though that kanji were identical for japanese and chinese, the difference being how they are pronounced, that is, the sounds associated to them.

5th January 2009, 10:25 AM	#9
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	That's right celtan, but the combination of characters (as the grammar etc) differ. And Chinese mirrors look totally different; more ornamental (as everything else in Chinese decorative art). "SHIGE", that's interesting. But I still wonder what that tree/second/mura-combination means. Still guess it's a name. stm

5th January 2009, 04:54 PM	#10
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	I asked Chieko, the Japanese wife of a distant relative, and she came up with the following translation : From top to bottom she reads 11 characters 1 = TEN 2 = KA 3 = ICHI 4 & 5 = MATSU 6 = MURA 7 = INA 8 = BA 9 = KAMI 10 = SHIGE 11 = YOSHI The two last characters are the maker's first name : SHIGEYOSHI. INABA is the name of the town or village, which is now called TOTTORI She thinks this piece was made between 1626 an 1747. Some of the chararcters used on this mirror are old characters from the Edo-period.