Can anyone read Japanese?

migueldiaz · 3rd January 2009, 05:37 AM

A most poignant story ... thanks for sharing it, Gene.

And I sure am glad I can help partially lift the veil of mystery

surrounding the mirror!

Have you tried Googling for "Imbamura" by the way? Kindly please refer to the attached pics. The village happens to be northeast of Tokyo. And there's this body of water (marshland?) right next to Imbamura. Which probably explains why there's an image of a crane in the mirror ...

migueldiaz · 3rd January 2009, 06:00 AM

I googled "all under heaven" and its calligraphy (below) certainly looks very similar to the first four characters in the mirror.

The entire article says:

All under heaven, or literally, "heaven under" (Chinese: 天下; pinyin: tiān xià), is a phrase in the Chinese language and a cultural concept in China.

The Chinese character 天 means "sky" or "heaven". 下 means "under" or "down". 天下 together, literally means "under the sky". The word 天下, besides the literal meaning, is also taken by Chinese as referring to the whole world. In this context then, it can perhaps be best understood and translated as "Everything Under the Heavens". Only in modern times has the term 世界 (shì jiè) come into use to directly refer to the world.

In classical Chinese political thought, the Emperor of China would nominally be the ruler of All under heaven, that is, the entire world. Although in practice there would be areas of the known world which were not under the control of the Emperor, in Chinese political theory the political rulers of those areas derived their power from the Emperor.

Usage

A common term meaning "the world", tiān xià has been used throughout history. It is ordinary to name various things, ranging from city gates, such as Shanhai Guan, to snacks, as "The first under heaven" or "The best under heaven" (tiān xià dì yī, 天下第一).

Another usage for "tiān xià" is "tiān xià wéi gōng" (天下為公), which literally means "all is equal under heaven". In other words, the world exists not for a ruler or one person, but for all.

"Tiān xià wú nán shì" (天下無難事) is another phrase concerning "Tiān xià", meaning "[There is] no difficulty under heaven".

Variants

The Chinese term "All under heaven" has been borrowed into Korean, where it is pronounced Cheon Ha. In the ssireum, Korea's traditional style of wrestling, Cheon Ha refers to the championship of all weights (perhaps best interpreted as world champion).

It has also been borrowed into Japanese, where it is pronounced tenka. For example, moves to unite the whole of Japan by lords such as Oda Nobunaga or Tokugawa Ieyasu were characterized as 'seizing tenka' (tenka wo toru 天下を取る).

The term is also borrowed into Vietnamese as thiên hạ. Its usage is similar as in Chinese, where it means "the world" or "everybody".

The term "all under heaven" is also the theme of one of my favorite movies, Hero (2002).

stekemest · 3rd January 2009, 10:15 AM

The province is not IMBA, but INABA, now part of TOTTORI prefecture in south western Japan. First three are TENKA-ICHI, first under the heavens. The use of that title was prohibited in 1682, but was still inoficially used until the 19th century. The character below the province means KASE(GU) which is "to work".The smith's name must either be the last two characters (OMO?YOSHI) or the characters below TENKA-ICHI (which I can't make out except -MURA).
There doesn't seem to be a date.
My Japanese isn't the best though.

Peter

stekemest · 3rd January 2009, 11:03 AM

By the way, the image itself has nothing to do with the place of manufacture. It is a standard theme showing a crane, pines and bamboo, all of which stand for "long life".
stm

Atlantia · 3rd January 2009, 04:40 PM

Miguel and Peter, Thank you so much!

Gentlemen, I can only say:

Dômo arigatô gozaimasu

Which I believe is the correct form when expressing gratitude to ones teachers.

I remember seeing a couple of others translated somewhere which might give us more of an idea of what the remaining characters might say. I'm off to look now!

Back later, thank you again chaps!

Regards
Gene

stekemest · 3rd January 2009, 04:48 PM

It must be a name: ??mura. Probably the one who made it ("??mura, the first under heavens, working in Inaba province").

Quote:

Which I believe is the correct form when expressing gratitude to ones teachers.

Yes it is.

Peter

Atlantia · 3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM

Hmmm, I'm not being much help here. I can see from others wher I can find a partial or full translation that the fact that this one starts with the 'Tenka-Ichi' prefix then the rest is probobly going to be makers name, clan name, the name of the place where it was made, and possibly the region.
LOL, a date wuould have been nice!
I did find one site with a mention of these square ones and it said 'The Kaku (square) type is unique in that they are seldom seen.'

Tantalisingly close!!! Very happy to have got so much info on my little mirror already.

Regards
Gene

3rd January 2009, 05:37 AM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	A most poignant story ... thanks for sharing it, Gene. And I sure am glad I can help partially lift the veil of mystery surrounding the mirror! Have you tried Googling for "Imbamura" by the way? Kindly please refer to the attached pics. The village happens to be northeast of Tokyo. And there's this body of water (marshland?) right next to Imbamura. Which probably explains why there's an image of a crane in the mirror ... Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 06:00 AM	#2
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I googled "all under heaven" and its calligraphy (below) certainly looks very similar to the first four characters in the mirror. The entire article says: All under heaven, or literally, "heaven under" (Chinese: 天下; pinyin: tiān xià), is a phrase in the Chinese language and a cultural concept in China. The Chinese character 天 means "sky" or "heaven". 下 means "under" or "down". 天下 together, literally means "under the sky". The word 天下, besides the literal meaning, is also taken by Chinese as referring to the whole world. In this context then, it can perhaps be best understood and translated as "Everything Under the Heavens". Only in modern times has the term 世界 (shì jiè) come into use to directly refer to the world. In classical Chinese political thought, the Emperor of China would nominally be the ruler of All under heaven, that is, the entire world. Although in practice there would be areas of the known world which were not under the control of the Emperor, in Chinese political theory the political rulers of those areas derived their power from the Emperor. Usage A common term meaning "the world", tiān xià has been used throughout history. It is ordinary to name various things, ranging from city gates, such as Shanhai Guan, to snacks, as "The first under heaven" or "The best under heaven" (tiān xià dì yī, 天下第一). Another usage for "tiān xià" is "tiān xià wéi gōng" (天下為公), which literally means "all is equal under heaven". In other words, the world exists not for a ruler or one person, but for all. "Tiān xià wú nán shì" (天下無難事) is another phrase concerning "Tiān xià", meaning "[There is] no difficulty under heaven". Variants The Chinese term "All under heaven" has been borrowed into Korean, where it is pronounced Cheon Ha. In the ssireum, Korea's traditional style of wrestling, Cheon Ha refers to the championship of all weights (perhaps best interpreted as world champion). It has also been borrowed into Japanese, where it is pronounced tenka. For example, moves to unite the whole of Japan by lords such as Oda Nobunaga or Tokugawa Ieyasu were characterized as 'seizing tenka' (tenka wo toru 天下を取る). The term is also borrowed into Vietnamese as thiên hạ. Its usage is similar as in Chinese, where it means "the world" or "everybody". The term "all under heaven" is also the theme of one of my favorite movies, Hero (2002). Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 10:15 AM	#3
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	The province is not IMBA, but INABA, now part of TOTTORI prefecture in south western Japan. First three are TENKA-ICHI, first under the heavens. The use of that title was prohibited in 1682, but was still inoficially used until the 19th century. The character below the province means KASE(GU) which is "to work".The smith's name must either be the last two characters (OMO?YOSHI) or the characters below TENKA-ICHI (which I can't make out except -MURA). There doesn't seem to be a date. My Japanese isn't the best though. Peter Attached Images Last edited by stekemest; 3rd January 2009 at 04:25 PM.

3rd January 2009, 11:03 AM	#4
stekemest Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 183	By the way, the image itself has nothing to do with the place of manufacture. It is a standard theme showing a crane, pines and bamboo, all of which stand for "long life". stm

3rd January 2009, 04:40 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Miguel and Peter, Thank you so much! Gentlemen, I can only say: Dômo arigatô gozaimasu Which I believe is the correct form when expressing gratitude to ones teachers. I remember seeing a couple of others translated somewhere which might give us more of an idea of what the remaining characters might say. I'm off to look now! Back later, thank you again chaps! Regards Gene

3rd January 2009, 11:31 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hmmm, I'm not being much help here. I can see from others wher I can find a partial or full translation that the fact that this one starts with the 'Tenka-Ichi' prefix then the rest is probobly going to be makers name, clan name, the name of the place where it was made, and possibly the region. LOL, a date wuould have been nice! I did find one site with a mention of these square ones and it said 'The Kaku (square) type is unique in that they are seldom seen.' Tantalisingly close!!! Very happy to have got so much info on my little mirror already. Regards Gene