Unusual asymetrical Igarot spear head

migueldiaz · 2nd January 2009, 11:59 PM

I've seen a number of Igorot spearheads but they are always symmetrical.

Looks like in that past some non-conformist

Igorot bladesmiths decided to think out of the box! Below are pics of the usual spearheads.

As for the possible practical purpose of such, I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Looks like the spear is not for throwing as the asymmetrical head will cause the spear to wobble in flight. Hence it's more for close quarters combat I guess.

VVV · 3rd January 2009, 12:12 AM

From Krieger - see #8.

Michael

migueldiaz · 3rd January 2009, 12:30 AM

Thanks Michael, for the most useful additional info.

Given that the usual configuration (per pics I posted) are all symmetrical, but given on the other hand that in Krieger's sampling there's one that is asymmetrical, then that makes the asymmetrical form really rare I guess.

Bill M · 3rd January 2009, 12:58 AM

Mine does not seen especially well-made or unusual in any way except for the asymmetry. What I mean is that it looks like it was made for use, not display or ceremony. It is heavy and stout!

I also have another one, longer, with the same ferrule and spear shaft design, similar to the 4th from the right in Miguel Diaz's picture.

Both of mine have the socketed spike butt end.

Michael, thank you for pointing out the one in Kreiger. Does yours have the ferrule and shaft like mine?

How about yours, Ben? If they all have similar ferrules like the one in Krieger, it could indicate they were made by the same culture or sub-culture. Perhaps in a similar time period?

An additional question is that mine are in very clean condition suggesting being well-kept for a long time, or was made more recent.

The wood has that older, well-kept look. The collector these came from said that they were in his wife's family for a long time. She is Fillipina.

Dajak · 3rd January 2009, 08:04 AM

Hi Bill it is the same as the one you have .

Ben

Bill M · 3rd January 2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi Bill it is the same as the one you have .

Ben

Hi Ben,

Do you have any age, other information or provenance on yours?

Tim Simmons · 3rd January 2009, 12:22 PM

I really like this sort of strong simple metal work and design. Often seen on African weapons. Reminds me of Japanese aesthetics of form, just lacking decoration and coloured metals.

fearn · 3rd January 2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

I've seen a number of Igorot spearheads but they are always symmetrical.

Looks like in that past some non-conformist

Igorot bladesmiths decided to think out of the box! Below are pics of the usual spearheads.

As for the possible practical purpose of such, I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Looks like the spear is not for throwing as the asymmetrical head will cause the spear to wobble in flight. Hence it's more for close quarters combat I guess.

Interesting thread! Gotta point out, Miguel and VVV, that both of you have pictures that resemble these spearheads. In Miguel's post, it's on the extreme right, top picture, and in VVV's post, it's #7 and #8. I know nothing about the Igorot, but I think this type isn't uncommon.

Best,

F

David · 4th January 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

As for the possible practical purpose of such, I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Looks like the spear is not for throwing as the asymmetrical head will cause the spear to wobble in flight. Hence it's more for close quarters combat I guess.

Miguel, i could be wrong, but i don't suspect that this spear was designed for combat. More likely fishing or some other sort of hunting.
Whaling harpoons were often asymmetrical and they flew just fine when thrown.

Dajak · 4th January 2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Miguel, i could be wrong, but i don't suspect that this spear was designed for combat. More likely fishing or some other sort of hunting.
Whaling harpoons were often asymmetrical and they flew just fine when thrown.

Yes fishing is an good explanation I think

Ben

migueldiaz · 4th January 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Gotta point out, Miguel and VVV, that both of you have pictures that resemble these spearheads. In Miguel's post, it's on the extreme right, top picture, and in VVV's post, it's #7 and #8.

Yep, upon closer look it's there all right in the pic I posted. Thanks, Fearn!

Actually in Michael's pic, even #10 is asymmetrical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Miguel, i could be wrong, but i don't suspect that this spear was designed for combat. More likely fishing or some other sort of hunting.
Whaling harpoons were often asymmetrical and they flew just fine when thrown.

Thanks David for the pic of the harpoons

Haven't seen any of those before, so it's quite interesting for me to see the various types.

Looks then that the asymmetrical spearhead can indeed be a hunting spear. To validate the point, perhaps Nonoy can give us more info as to the type of game Igorots used to hunt?

I also googled "asymmetric spearhead" and a quote from the book Arrowpoints, Spearheads, and Knives of Prehistoric Times (2007) appears below.

So in summary, the authors are surmising that the primitive asymmetrical spearhead or arrowhead they are looking at must have functioned more as knives. Their rationale is found on the 2nd sentence in the last paragraph, per image below.

So back to the asymmetrical Igorot spearheads, is it possible then that the Igorots must have also used the asymmetric spearheads not for throwing, but more say as a halberd? I mean if the spearhead is heavier on one side, wouldn't that give the spear more stability during thrusts in close combat (i.e., in the sense that the spear's shaft will tend not to roll inside one's hands)?

That's pure speculation on my part though. But the next time I go to Baguio City which is deep in the heart of Igorot country, I'll look for oldtimers and ask what's the point

... Battara, here we go again!

Lew · 4th January 2009, 04:10 PM

Bill

First you have a nice spear there. It is a rarer form and is more likely a war spear or hunting spear rather than a fishing spear. As far as age probably WW2 or older and not 1960s -70s the patina on the shaft is a nice deep honey color which you would not see on a 30 year old spear. You did good.

Lew

fearn · 4th January 2009, 07:59 PM

Remember that it's only asymmetrical if it's held blade horizontal. If the blade is held vertically, it doesn't matter.

I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head.

That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need.

Just another thought,

F

migueldiaz · 5th January 2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head.

That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need.

Hi Fearn, yes looks like it. Thanks.

Meaning if it was a spear and not an arrow, imparting a spin on the projectile is not critical. We can check that out also in the how-to's of spearthrowing, here and here.

As to the short effective range of the Igorot spear being bulky as said, we read the following, from Albert Jenks (1904):

"Men go to war armed with a wooden shield, a steel battle-ax, and one to three steel or wooden spears. It is a man's agility and skill in keeping his shield between himself and the enemy that preserves his life. Their battles are full of quick, incessant springing motion. There are sudden rushes and retreats, sneaking flank movements to cut an enemy off. The body is always in hand, always in motion, that it may respond instantly to every necessity. Spears are thrown with greatest accuracy and fatality up to 30 feet, and after the spears are discharged the contest, if continued, is at arms' length with the battle-axes. In such warfare no attitude or position can safely be maintained except for the shortest possible time."

Attached is another old pic showing Igorot warriors with spears ready, while expecting an attack.

Bill M · 5th January 2009, 09:52 AM

Thanks for all the replies. And Lew, I'd like to think it is older than 1960-70 and well kept. It is hard to get that patina otherwise. I have another one that has the same shaft color and a more common symmetrical head.

I also have a harpoon variety.

This is a heavy, solid weapon, but very well-balanced! A strong man could probably throw it 30 feet as Jenks remarked in Miguel Diaz's post.

The butt spike would indicate that it could be stuck in the ground. So we may be looking at the same type spear. Under enlargement there are several spears in the picture that are barbed and may have asymmetrical heads.

As to the asymmetric head causing airfoil disturbance, I find, in the case of this spear, this would be extremely unlikely. And though it could be used as a halberd, this also seems unlikely.

Like the military assegai I posted recently, this also seems to have the heft of a fighting stick/club. Like a Japanese Bo.

I have quite a few spears. There is a noticeable difference in those that were meant to be thrown, like some huge 9 foot spears from PNG that I acquired with a spear thrower.

3rd January 2009, 12:12 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	From Krieger - see #8. Michael Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 12:30 AM	#3
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Thanks Michael, for the most useful additional info. Given that the usual configuration (per pics I posted) are all symmetrical, but given on the other hand that in Krieger's sampling there's one that is asymmetrical, then that makes the asymmetrical form really rare I guess. Last edited by migueldiaz; 3rd January 2009 at 12:44 AM.

3rd January 2009, 12:58 AM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Mine does not seen especially well-made or unusual in any way except for the asymmetry. What I mean is that it looks like it was made for use, not display or ceremony. It is heavy and stout! I also have another one, longer, with the same ferrule and spear shaft design, similar to the 4th from the right in Miguel Diaz's picture. Both of mine have the socketed spike butt end. Michael, thank you for pointing out the one in Kreiger. Does yours have the ferrule and shaft like mine? How about yours, Ben? If they all have similar ferrules like the one in Krieger, it could indicate they were made by the same culture or sub-culture. Perhaps in a similar time period? An additional question is that mine are in very clean condition suggesting being well-kept for a long time, or was made more recent. The wood has that older, well-kept look. The collector these came from said that they were in his wife's family for a long time. She is Fillipina. Last edited by Bill Marsh; 3rd January 2009 at 01:09 AM.

2nd January 2009, 11:59 PM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	I've seen a number of Igorot spearheads but they are always symmetrical. Looks like in that past some non-conformist Igorot bladesmiths decided to think out of the box! Below are pics of the usual spearheads. As for the possible practical purpose of such, I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Looks like the spear is not for throwing as the asymmetrical head will cause the spear to wobble in flight. Hence it's more for close quarters combat I guess. Attached Images

3rd January 2009, 08:04 AM	#5
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Bill it is the same as the one you have . Ben

3rd January 2009, 12:22 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	I really like this sort of strong simple metal work and design. Often seen on African weapons. Reminds me of Japanese aesthetics of form, just lacking decoration and coloured metals. Attached Images

4th January 2009, 04:10 PM	#12
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Bill First you have a nice spear there. It is a rarer form and is more likely a war spear or hunting spear rather than a fishing spear. As far as age probably WW2 or older and not 1960s -70s the patina on the shaft is a nice deep honey color which you would not see on a 30 year old spear. You did good. Lew

4th January 2009, 07:59 PM	#13
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Remember that it's only asymmetrical if it's held blade horizontal. If the blade is held vertically, it doesn't matter. I'd also point out that, at the distance the spear could be thrown in battle, symmetry probably didn't matter all that much. It's so bulky that it's not going to fly far, regardless of the shape of its head. The fact that the shaft is widest near the head also might serve to balance the head. That said, I'm not sure whether these spears were used more for throwing or in hand. Regardless, I think they could be thrown at need. Just another thought, F

5th January 2009, 09:52 AM	#15
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Thanks for all the replies. And Lew, I'd like to think it is older than 1960-70 and well kept. It is hard to get that patina otherwise. I have another one that has the same shaft color and a more common symmetrical head. I also have a harpoon variety. This is a heavy, solid weapon, but very well-balanced! A strong man could probably throw it 30 feet as Jenks remarked in Miguel Diaz's post. The butt spike would indicate that it could be stuck in the ground. So we may be looking at the same type spear. Under enlargement there are several spears in the picture that are barbed and may have asymmetrical heads. As to the asymmetric head causing airfoil disturbance, I find, in the case of this spear, this would be extremely unlikely. And though it could be used as a halberd, this also seems unlikely. Like the military assegai I posted recently, this also seems to have the heft of a fighting stick/club. Like a Japanese Bo. I have quite a few spears. There is a noticeable difference in those that were meant to be thrown, like some huge 9 foot spears from PNG that I acquired with a spear thrower.