Really Good kindjals - where are they ?

Jeff D · 11th December 2004, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivkin

Yet again, as in my experience - the hilt and scabbard are usually simplistic.

Can someone refresh my memory? I thought I read that the weapons with plain wood hilts were considered tools and not taxed or taken by the Russians / Ottoman, while the ornate hilts where considered weapons instead of tools and were. I can't for the life of me remember where (or even if i read this).

Thanks
Jeff

Rivkin · 11th December 2004, 07:48 PM

It's true in some sence, however there is a different reason for the fact that most damascus blades have simple hilts - they were made prior to 1860, prior to the point when Kubachi hilts and scabbards became "must have" in order to sell it.

Yannis · 11th December 2004, 08:01 PM

Ariel

You have right that late 19th century kindjal became more asthetic than useful objects. But they still could kill someone in close combat or tavern fight. It is the same that happened to yataghans, cretan knifes etc.

We know from history books that some greek guerillas till the end of WWII had swords and big knifes and they USED them in battles.

Dr Jones

Thank you for the picture. It is amazing. Any other damascus kindjal?

Jens Nordlunde · 11th December 2004, 09:28 PM

Many are in closed private collections.

Jens

Rivkin · 12th December 2004, 03:23 AM

I do apologize if my previous posts where poorly mannered - I'm still jelous like hell, this guy is such a beauty !

Lee · 12th December 2004, 05:28 PM

The blade on the one I posted above is just over 36 cm / 14 inches in length and just under 4.5 cm / 1.75 inches wide at the base. The fullers are so deep in this 4.5 mm thick blade that in just a few foci, light will pass through a few pinprick sized holes in the blade where fuller meets fuller. The smith obviously had to remove a lot of metal and did so with great precision. The hilt, though plain, may well be made of rhino horn and is very well shaped and fitted. The iron rivets are nicely faceted and over a cm high. I have never had a scabbard, so unfortunately, this exceedingly sharp dagger is sheathed in newspaper bound with masking tape.

I found it at an arms fair several decades ago; I was told that it was part of a collection of pattern-welded items that was being dispersed.

Rivkin · 12th December 2004, 05:54 PM

Sorry, it's most likely not a rhino horn - I've never seen those used by caucasians. What really puzzles me is that this piece is unsigned - Dagestanians usually do sign their pieces.

FenrisWolf · 6th September 2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I have never had a scabbard, so unfortunately, this exceedingly sharp dagger is sheathed in newspaper bound with masking tape.

Might I suggest that you replace the newspaper with some archival acid-free paper, available at any art supply store? Newspaper is by its nature high in acid content and will over time damage that blade badly, no matter how well oiled it is. Given the high quality of the blade, it might also be worthwhile to look into replacing the scabbard with a modern reproduction. It might not be original, but it'd still be better than paper and masking tape!

12th December 2004, 05:28 PM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Some follow-up details on my example pictured above The blade on the one I posted above is just over 36 cm / 14 inches in length and just under 4.5 cm / 1.75 inches wide at the base. The fullers are so deep in this 4.5 mm thick blade that in just a few foci, light will pass through a few pinprick sized holes in the blade where fuller meets fuller. The smith obviously had to remove a lot of metal and did so with great precision. The hilt, though plain, may well be made of rhino horn and is very well shaped and fitted. The iron rivets are nicely faceted and over a cm high. I have never had a scabbard, so unfortunately, this exceedingly sharp dagger is sheathed in newspaper bound with masking tape. I found it at an arms fair several decades ago; I was told that it was part of a collection of pattern-welded items that was being dispersed.

11th December 2004, 07:48 PM	#2
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	It's true in some sence, however there is a different reason for the fact that most damascus blades have simple hilts - they were made prior to 1860, prior to the point when Kubachi hilts and scabbards became "must have" in order to sell it.

11th December 2004, 08:01 PM	#3
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Ariel You have right that late 19th century kindjal became more asthetic than useful objects. But they still could kill someone in close combat or tavern fight. It is the same that happened to yataghans, cretan knifes etc. We know from history books that some greek guerillas till the end of WWII had swords and big knifes and they USED them in battles. Dr Jones Thank you for the picture. It is amazing. Any other damascus kindjal?

11th December 2004, 09:28 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Many are in closed private collections. Jens

12th December 2004, 03:23 AM	#5
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	I do apologize if my previous posts where poorly mannered - I'm still jelous like hell, this guy is such a beauty !

12th December 2004, 05:54 PM	#7
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	Sorry, it's most likely not a rhino horn - I've never seen those used by caucasians. What really puzzles me is that this piece is unsigned - Dagestanians usually do sign their pieces.