Woomera N.Territory?

[Tim Simmons]

Torres Straits islanders 1891 from the Smithsonian Institute. In the thread about a stone club there is information on Cape York being a great centre of import and export. A big centre for the export of weapons. This is the same form as mine.

[kronckew]

interesting weapon, atlatl have stone weights that can be moved to adjust the throw to the dart (spear), and sometimes finger loops, the spear bends as force is applied to the spear end, depending on the length to diameter ratio of the spear and there is a point where the counterbalance weight tunes out some of the vibration, increasing distance and accuracy. a modern atlatl threw a spear 'dart' almost 800 yards, so they are not something to be trifled with. atlatl usually have a 'hook' pivot that engages a cone shaped depression in the end of the 5-7 ft. long dart. no./central/so. american style darts are normally fletched.

i'd imaging a forked 'knock' on the end similar to a big arrow would work for yours, the atlatl sites show very similar throwers to yours.

here's a video showing how they are used.

http://www.arthurhaines.com/primitiv...onstration.wmv

more links for anyone who might want to practice this most ancient art. a very easy to make weapons system....

http://www.thunderbirdatlatl.com/?page_id=78

[Tim Simmons]

Yes a deadly weapon but just a few sticks really. I have this picture from the British Museum Publications "The Torres Strait Collection of A.C.Haddon" 1984. I did actually work in the then Museum of Mankind at this time. This is very similar to the last picture I post. There seems to be a degree of varriation perhaps that also occurs with stone clubs.

[fearn]

Hi Kronckew,

Thanks for that neat video of the atlatl. I keep promising myself I'll get one, someday.

I'm no specialist on the spearthrowers, but I think there's a mechanical difference between the North American spear throwers and the Australian ones. The old Midwest spear throwers were, as you say, optimized as a "two spring" system, where the spear thrower bent, the dart bent, and then they both sprung back in synchrony to store and release the energy, and make the dart really fly. They optimized the system by repositioning the stone weight up and down the shaft of the spearthrower, to change how fast it rebounded to mesh with the rebound speed of the dart.

The Australian spearthrowers--woomeras--are, so far as I know, rigid. I've seen a demonstration of the Queensland variety (similar to the one here), and the spear definitely bends. The desert woomeras are spoon-shaped and rigid, and I'm not sure if their spears bend or not. The one video I saw (from around Uluru) showed an aboriginal using his broad spearthrower sidearm to good effect, so that spoon shape might have some stabilizing effect that I don't understand (perhaps the edge of the spoon holds the spear level while the user throws sidearm). In any case, any spring action was confined to the spear, and the woomera is primarily a lever arm.

One thing I'm not sure about is whether the North American spearthrower is technically an atlatl, which to be picky, is the Aztec spearthrower used to good effect on Cortez. Presumably it is, but the few illustrations I've seen of the Aztec atlatl don't have the banner weight, so for all I know, the Aztec atlatl was built more like a woomera. Yes, I KNOW that atlatl is now an anthropological term. I'm just being picky

Thanks for showing this great item, Tim. No arguments that this one is from the Torres Straits (unlike that stone club )

Best,

F

[Tim Simmons]

The auther suggests that apart from small areas the use of atlatls had fallen out of favour before the introduction of the gun. Interesting what is said about weights?

[fearn]

Hi Tim,

So far as I know, bow and arrow started replacing the atlatl in the Americas starting around 2000 BC. According to Robert McGhee (Ancient People of the Arctic), the paleo-Eskimos brought their bows with them out of Asia between 3000 BC and 2000 BC, and as far as I know, the first Indian arrowheads occur in northern Labrador around 2000 BC, and look like crude copies of those of the paleo-eskimo. So his hypothesis is that the Indians learned how to make bows from the Eskimo, and the technology diffused south from there.

As for why bows replaced atlatls, I'd guess that it's because the projectiles are smaller, easier to make, and fly at least three times as far. I've been checking flight records, and the current atlatl record is around 848 feet, while flight bows, even without the gizmos, fly over 900 yards (with a crossbow shooting over 2000 yards, and the handbow record at something like 1337 yards). Also, the bow is probably easier to stalk with, since all you have to do is pull and release.

Still, the atlatl stayed around for a while, such as with the Aztecs. As for why the Australian aboriginals didn't switch (unlike their New Guinea and Torres Island cousins, who mostly did switch), all I can guess is that either a) Australia doesn't have great archery materials in The Bush (dubious), or b) making and carrying bows and arrows was too much fuss, considering that most of aboriginal toolkit is multi-use, and bow and arrows are single use. Still, the Utes and other desert nomadic people (such as the San in south Africa) made and used bows, even when all they had for wood was willow. So it's just one of those puzzles.

F

[G. McCormack]

The Atlatl was used for thousands of years. It's arguably one of the most important innovations ever.

Most Australian throwers are used with really long heavy darts, like 10 or so feet. Most also employ a hammer grip, and the dart doesnt sit on top, but rather to the side. The wide body and airplane wing or birdwing cross section aids in tracking during the throw. The end of yours is probably incorrect-- the angle is wrong to nock darts, from my view.

Flexible N. American throwers don't really increase dart speed, even if calibrated to the weight and length of the darts. Most flexible atlatls fail to transfer their potential energy into the dart, transferring less than a stiff thrower. They do feel different. Kinda nice.

Bannerstones and weights act to stabilize the throw (partially by lowering the felt center of gravity of the fulcrum of the dart and nock, if that makes sense), and so may be seen to help increase consistency, but they do not appear to increase dart speed or result in an increase in energy delivered to a target.

Anyone who is interested, I encourage you to make a thrower and some darts. Its very easy when you learn the concepts, and the equipment is free and easy to make.


I've made dozens of throwers, and throw at least a few times a week. My atlatl goals include taking a rabbit, and hunting a shark from my kayak.

I will mention, its a helluva lot easier to make meat with a bow than with an atlatl.

But if you're going for Pleistocene megafauna, and you have a bunch of guys and a big herd of mammoths or something, go with the atlatl.

cool stuff