S.Seas-V- Early African clubs

VANDOO · 20th November 2008, 12:06 AM

I THINK THE PRICE OF SOUTH PACIFIC CLUBS IS MOSTLY DUE TO THE GALLERIES TOUTING THEM AS HIGH CLASS ETHINOGRAPHIC ART. THEY HAVE BEEM PROFESSIONALLY PROMOTED FOR YEARS AS RARE AND A GOOD INVESTMENT AND THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF APPEAL.
THE REASON THE CLUBS MADE IN THE LAST 100 YEARS STILL SELL IS MOST COLLECTORS CAN'T AFFORD THE GOOD OLD ONES BUT STILL WANT AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE RARE FORMS. SO IF THEY ARE WELL MADE OR FROM THE 1920'S, TO 1940'S UNTIL THE PRESENT ALL HAVE THEIR DEVOTEES.
THERE IS ALSO COMPETICIAN IN NATIVE AMERICAN, AFRICAN, ECT. AT PRESENT THERE IS A COLLECTION OF PENOPSCOT CLUBS FOR SALE FOR A ASTOUNDING AMOUNT ON EBAY. I HAVE BID ON HUNDREDS OF THE THINGS ON EBAY PERHAPS SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CORNER THE MARKET AS I STILL DON'T HAVE AN EXAMPLE OLD OR NEWLY MADE. I NOW PLAN TO JUST CARVE MY OWN.

Tim Simmons · 25th November 2008, 07:47 PM

I must be very dumb. The market, talwars?, keris? so many? many? other types are so abundant yet command high prices. Millions around and millions want them. You would be forgiven thinking they should be cheap? Perhaps I live in a different world

.

fearn · 25th November 2008, 08:52 PM

Hi Tim,

I think there might be a social angle to this. For instance, when I say, "Pacific Island" you think vacation paradise, or (if you're historically minded) "Noble Savage."

If I say, "tropical African country" you think civil war, disease, and (if you're historically minded) slavery and the "White Man's Grave."

So...where would you prefer to buy a club from?

Fair? Not really. The Solomon Islands (to take one place that produces a lot of clubs) has an ongoing civil war and a really virulent form of malaria. AIDS is world-wide, and blackbirding took place in the South Seas, although not on the scale of African slavery. Conversely, much of Africa is beautiful and parts have been pretty peaceful for years.

I don't think it's fair, but I do think that such attitudes affect the prices of artifacts.

F

VANDOO · 6th December 2008, 05:41 PM

I AGREE WITH FEARN'S POINTS.
IN THE PACIFIC WAR CLUBS SEEMED TO HAVE HAD MORE IMPORTANCE AND PRESTIEGE THAN IN AFRICA. THEY WERE GENERALY LARGER AND OFTEN VERY ELABORATELY DECORATED AND CARVED. THE DECORATIONS ON CLUBS, SPEARS, (SHIELDS WHERE THEY WERE USED) WERE IMPRESSIVE AND NO DOUBT SHOWED THE WARRIORS GREATNESS OR STATUS AND PERHAPS HIS TRIBE. THE DECORATIONS WERE VERY ORNATE AND OFTEN COVERED THE CLUB LIKE THE TATOOS OFTEN COVERED THE WARRIOR. UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NO KNOWLEGE OF THE STORIES THESE DESIGNS TOLD OR OF THEIR MEANINGS. I FEAR THE KNOWLEGE WAS LOST LONG AGO, THE EXPLORERS LIKE COOK AND OTHERS DID GATHER AS FANCY AN EXAMPLE AS THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON TO BRING BACK FOR MUSEUM COLLECTIONS AND TO MAKE THEIR REPORTS AND PAPERS MORE INTERESTING. THEY ALSO BROUGHT BACK DRAWINGS SOME ACCURATE AND SOME FANCIFUL BUT THEY DID NOT TALK TO THE TRIBES WISE MEN OR CHIEFS AND FIND OUT MUCH OF THEIR TRADITIONS AND WHAT THE TATOOS OR DESIGNS ON CLUBS MEANT AS FAR AS I KNOW.

WRITERS GLORIFIED THE SOUTH PACIFIC AND THE NOBLE SAVAGE OR THEY TALKED OF THE PERILS AND THE DEADLY HEADHUNTERS AND CANNIBALS. THIS INCREASED THE INTEREST IN THE AREA AND ITS ARTEFACTS AND ADVENTURERS, ARTISTS AND WRITERS FLOCKED THERE. IT WAS NO DOUBT THE IN THING TO HAVE A NICE BIG CANNIBAL WAR CLUB AS A CONVERSATION PIECE AT HOME OR AT THE MENS CLUB.
TODAY IN MANY PARTS OR RUAL AFRICA EVERYONE CARRIES A CLUB OR STICK ALL THE TIME. THEY ARE USUALLY NOT DECORATED MUCH BUT ARE VERY FUNCTIONAL AS YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOMETHING YOU CAN EAT MIGHT GET IN THROWING RANGE OR YOU MIGHT NEED TO RUN OFF A DOG OR HYEANA OR SOMETHING OR PERHAPS KONK A NEGHBOR WHO STOLD YOUR CHICKEN.

IN AFRICA THE CLUBS HAVE NICE FORMS AND VERY DECORATIVE WIREWORK BUT ARE USUALLY OF A SMALLER SIZE AND PLAIN. THE VERY FANCY CARVEING AND DECORATIONS SEEMS TO BE MOSTLY ON STAFFS, SEPTERS AND STUFF FOR CHIEFS OR CEREMONIES. PERHAPS SOMEONE HAS INFORMATION ON WHY THIS IS

20th November 2008, 12:06 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I THINK THE PRICE OF SOUTH PACIFIC CLUBS IS MOSTLY DUE TO THE GALLERIES TOUTING THEM AS HIGH CLASS ETHINOGRAPHIC ART. THEY HAVE BEEM PROFESSIONALLY PROMOTED FOR YEARS AS RARE AND A GOOD INVESTMENT AND THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF APPEAL. THE REASON THE CLUBS MADE IN THE LAST 100 YEARS STILL SELL IS MOST COLLECTORS CAN'T AFFORD THE GOOD OLD ONES BUT STILL WANT AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE RARE FORMS. SO IF THEY ARE WELL MADE OR FROM THE 1920'S, TO 1940'S UNTIL THE PRESENT ALL HAVE THEIR DEVOTEES. THERE IS ALSO COMPETICIAN IN NATIVE AMERICAN, AFRICAN, ECT. AT PRESENT THERE IS A COLLECTION OF PENOPSCOT CLUBS FOR SALE FOR A ASTOUNDING AMOUNT ON EBAY. I HAVE BID ON HUNDREDS OF THE THINGS ON EBAY PERHAPS SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO CORNER THE MARKET AS I STILL DON'T HAVE AN EXAMPLE OLD OR NEWLY MADE. I NOW PLAN TO JUST CARVE MY OWN.

25th November 2008, 07:47 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I must be very dumb. The market, talwars?, keris? so many? many? other types are so abundant yet command high prices. Millions around and millions want them. You would be forgiven thinking they should be cheap? Perhaps I live in a different world .

25th November 2008, 08:52 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, I think there might be a social angle to this. For instance, when I say, "Pacific Island" you think vacation paradise, or (if you're historically minded) "Noble Savage." If I say, "tropical African country" you think civil war, disease, and (if you're historically minded) slavery and the "White Man's Grave." So...where would you prefer to buy a club from? Fair? Not really. The Solomon Islands (to take one place that produces a lot of clubs) has an ongoing civil war and a really virulent form of malaria. AIDS is world-wide, and blackbirding took place in the South Seas, although not on the scale of African slavery. Conversely, much of Africa is beautiful and parts have been pretty peaceful for years. I don't think it's fair, but I do think that such attitudes affect the prices of artifacts. F

6th December 2008, 05:41 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I AGREE WITH FEARN'S POINTS. IN THE PACIFIC WAR CLUBS SEEMED TO HAVE HAD MORE IMPORTANCE AND PRESTIEGE THAN IN AFRICA. THEY WERE GENERALY LARGER AND OFTEN VERY ELABORATELY DECORATED AND CARVED. THE DECORATIONS ON CLUBS, SPEARS, (SHIELDS WHERE THEY WERE USED) WERE IMPRESSIVE AND NO DOUBT SHOWED THE WARRIORS GREATNESS OR STATUS AND PERHAPS HIS TRIBE. THE DECORATIONS WERE VERY ORNATE AND OFTEN COVERED THE CLUB LIKE THE TATOOS OFTEN COVERED THE WARRIOR. UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NO KNOWLEGE OF THE STORIES THESE DESIGNS TOLD OR OF THEIR MEANINGS. I FEAR THE KNOWLEGE WAS LOST LONG AGO, THE EXPLORERS LIKE COOK AND OTHERS DID GATHER AS FANCY AN EXAMPLE AS THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON TO BRING BACK FOR MUSEUM COLLECTIONS AND TO MAKE THEIR REPORTS AND PAPERS MORE INTERESTING. THEY ALSO BROUGHT BACK DRAWINGS SOME ACCURATE AND SOME FANCIFUL BUT THEY DID NOT TALK TO THE TRIBES WISE MEN OR CHIEFS AND FIND OUT MUCH OF THEIR TRADITIONS AND WHAT THE TATOOS OR DESIGNS ON CLUBS MEANT AS FAR AS I KNOW. WRITERS GLORIFIED THE SOUTH PACIFIC AND THE NOBLE SAVAGE OR THEY TALKED OF THE PERILS AND THE DEADLY HEADHUNTERS AND CANNIBALS. THIS INCREASED THE INTEREST IN THE AREA AND ITS ARTEFACTS AND ADVENTURERS, ARTISTS AND WRITERS FLOCKED THERE. IT WAS NO DOUBT THE IN THING TO HAVE A NICE BIG CANNIBAL WAR CLUB AS A CONVERSATION PIECE AT HOME OR AT THE MENS CLUB. TODAY IN MANY PARTS OR RUAL AFRICA EVERYONE CARRIES A CLUB OR STICK ALL THE TIME. THEY ARE USUALLY NOT DECORATED MUCH BUT ARE VERY FUNCTIONAL AS YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOMETHING YOU CAN EAT MIGHT GET IN THROWING RANGE OR YOU MIGHT NEED TO RUN OFF A DOG OR HYEANA OR SOMETHING OR PERHAPS KONK A NEGHBOR WHO STOLD YOUR CHICKEN. IN AFRICA THE CLUBS HAVE NICE FORMS AND VERY DECORATIVE WIREWORK BUT ARE USUALLY OF A SMALLER SIZE AND PLAIN. THE VERY FANCY CARVEING AND DECORATIONS SEEMS TO BE MOSTLY ON STAFFS, SEPTERS AND STUFF FOR CHIEFS OR CEREMONIES. PERHAPS SOMEONE HAS INFORMATION ON WHY THIS IS