Mughal Kard?

Battara · 12th April 2005, 08:13 PM

NO, just listening...er...reading and trying to find a time to give measurements and even some pictures of Mughal miniature research. Maybe tomorrow.

I do have another question, though, regarding the end of the pommel where a piece used to hang - would this be on a trousse or "Mughal steak knife"?

BTW - just finished reading Elgood's new book. Thus the background to some of my questions.

tom hyle · 13th April 2005, 01:50 AM

Jens' little knife bears a striking resemblance to European knives of the same period, though it seems to have a long ferule and stalk tang? While the European type is more often with a forged or applied bolster, and scale handle.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th April 2005, 01:11 PM

Very well done Tom. The knife was made in London by John Jencks (1576-1625). He got his cutlers mark 1606-7.

Jens

RSWORD · 14th April 2005, 02:11 AM

It is an interesting little knife and I have had the opportunity to handle it. It is unlike any other Kard and so I was thinking out loud in regards to it maybe originally part of a trousse. To me, it does not resemble the knife you posted, Jens, other than maybe the dimensions somewhat. I think Jose's research into early miniatures depicting what look like slender elegant knives might be revealing. As far as trousse, it seems more like oriental examples, just in that it is long and slender, no more.

Battara · 20th April 2005, 08:48 PM

Finally, I got the dimensions of the piece - it is 12.5 inches long overall.

I also have some pictures from 16c-17c Mughal miniataures to share that show what look like similar pieces being worn (all seem to have ivory hilts). It is from paintings like these that I base some of my supositions:

Montino Bourbon · 21st April 2005, 06:28 AM

I don't recognize the knives, but I sure do recognize the instrument in the second mughal miniature.

It's a rabab, the ancestor of the sarod, which is the instrument that I play.

Battara · 21st April 2005, 07:00 PM

Montino, even though it is not a knive or sword, I appreciate the information and the picture of your instrument. Thank you.

20th April 2005, 08:48 PM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Finally, I got the dimensions of the piece - it is 12.5 inches long overall. I also have some pictures from 16c-17c Mughal miniataures to share that show what look like similar pieces being worn (all seem to have ivory hilts). It is from paintings like these that I base some of my supositions: Attached Images

21st April 2005, 06:28 AM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	I don't recognize the knives, but I sure do recognize the instrument in the second mughal miniature. It's a rabab, the ancestor of the sarod, which is the instrument that I play. Attached Images

12th April 2005, 08:13 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	NO, just listening...er...reading and trying to find a time to give measurements and even some pictures of Mughal miniature research. Maybe tomorrow. I do have another question, though, regarding the end of the pommel where a piece used to hang - would this be on a trousse or "Mughal steak knife"? BTW - just finished reading Elgood's new book. Thus the background to some of my questions.

13th April 2005, 01:50 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Jens' little knife bears a striking resemblance to European knives of the same period, though it seems to have a long ferule and stalk tang? While the European type is more often with a forged or applied bolster, and scale handle.

13th April 2005, 01:11 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Very well done Tom. The knife was made in London by John Jencks (1576-1625). He got his cutlers mark 1606-7. Jens

14th April 2005, 02:11 AM	#4
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	It is an interesting little knife and I have had the opportunity to handle it. It is unlike any other Kard and so I was thinking out loud in regards to it maybe originally part of a trousse. To me, it does not resemble the knife you posted, Jens, other than maybe the dimensions somewhat. I think Jose's research into early miniatures depicting what look like slender elegant knives might be revealing. As far as trousse, it seems more like oriental examples, just in that it is long and slender, no more.

21st April 2005, 07:00 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Montino, even though it is not a knive or sword, I appreciate the information and the picture of your instrument. Thank you.