Spanish Rapiers, a Bilbo FYC.

celtan · 14th November 2008, 03:34 PM

Interesting, both have one quillon larger than the other.

BTW: The grip on Gonzalo's can be found in the Spanish 1728' Regulation Model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gonzalo G

Yes, the similarities are obvious. It looks your sword is a military model, and the other one is a civil model, more rapier-like.
Regards

Gonzalo

Atlantia · 14th November 2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

Interesting, both have one quillon larger than the other.

BTW: The grip on Gonzalo's can be found in the Spanish 1728' Regulation Model.

How strange, the asymetry is reversed on them.
On mine the longer quillion is the one on the knuckle-bow side at 85mm, whilst the other is only 75mm.
On the ebay sword it loks the other way around.

I wonder why they are not the same length?

fearn · 14th November 2008, 09:13 PM

Hi Atlantia,

I hadn't checked this thread until now.

So far as the flowers go, we've got another one of those annoying, eight-petaled sword flowers again on one side, and a three-petaled thingie on the other.

My guess on the three-petaled thingie is that it's a side view of an iris (link to pic of spanish iris, which is appropriately called Iris xiphium).

As for the eight petaled flower, I just posted about a similar figure on that serpentine rapier thingie (link). The short answer is that there aren't any eight-petaled simple flowers. However, there are, potentially, eight petaled composite flowers in the sunflower family (Asteraceae, aka the Compositae). So, it could be a margerite, a daisy, or some such. It's not a true sunflower. OTOH, the Asteraceae is one of the biggest families of flowering plants in the world, so asking, "which one is it?" could take a long time to answer.

It also could be some sort of symbolic flower, as Katana suggested for the undulating rapier.

Hope this helps a little.

My 0.002 centavos,

F

Gonzalo G · 16th November 2008, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

It also could be some sort of symbolic flower, as Katana suggested for the undulating rapier.

Hope this helps a little.

My 0.002 centavos,

F

I think you have a point in this, Fearn. This could be a matter of a research. I don´t believe those decorations were only sudden inspirations of somebody.
Regards

Gonzalo

Atlantia · 16th November 2008, 02:13 PM

Good afternoon Gentlemen,
Welcome Fearn, thanks for your help. I'll see if I can draw the designs on paper and upload them in a bit.

Hugely greatful for your help guys.

Atlantia · 16th November 2008, 05:05 PM

The border of 'petals'? is the same on both sides. The designs are crudely executed but quite complex. Excuse my scribbles, they do make the designs clearer than the photos do. I think it defiantely looks like a sunflower. Any thoughts as to why or when?
Thanks
Gene

fearn · 16th November 2008, 05:24 PM

Hi Atlantia,

Interesting, and thanks for the sketches. Oddly enough, that "iris" looks more like the fruits of a larkspur (see first image) or even wolfsbane fruits (see second image) than an iris.

As for the sunflower, I'll repeat my first position: it's a relative of a sunflower, but I'm not convinced it's a sunflower. The reason I'm not convinced is two-fold: first, sunflowers tend to have more than eight petals (they're technically ray flowers), and second, they tend to have petals of a single color, where the petals on the rapier flower have a band halfway up. That band is characteristic of many other species of sunflower relatives, so I tend to think it's not a sunflower.

One thing I think we can ignore is the leaves under the flowers or fruits. Since they're the same for both flowers (unlike in nature), I think they're just a standardized leaf shape, without other meaning.

Best,

F

16th November 2008, 05:24 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Atlantia, Interesting, and thanks for the sketches. Oddly enough, that "iris" looks more like the fruits of a larkspur (see first image) or even wolfsbane fruits (see second image) than an iris. As for the sunflower, I'll repeat my first position: it's a relative of a sunflower, but I'm not convinced it's a sunflower. The reason I'm not convinced is two-fold: first, sunflowers tend to have more than eight petals (they're technically ray flowers), and second, they tend to have petals of a single color, where the petals on the rapier flower have a band halfway up. That band is characteristic of many other species of sunflower relatives, so I tend to think it's not a sunflower. One thing I think we can ignore is the leaves under the flowers or fruits. Since they're the same for both flowers (unlike in nature), I think they're just a standardized leaf shape, without other meaning. Best, F Attached Images

14th November 2008, 09:13 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Atlantia, I hadn't checked this thread until now. So far as the flowers go, we've got another one of those annoying, eight-petaled sword flowers again on one side, and a three-petaled thingie on the other. My guess on the three-petaled thingie is that it's a side view of an iris (link to pic of spanish iris, which is appropriately called Iris xiphium). As for the eight petaled flower, I just posted about a similar figure on that serpentine rapier thingie (link). The short answer is that there aren't any eight-petaled simple flowers. However, there are, potentially, eight petaled composite flowers in the sunflower family (Asteraceae, aka the Compositae). So, it could be a margerite, a daisy, or some such. It's not a true sunflower. OTOH, the Asteraceae is one of the biggest families of flowering plants in the world, so asking, "which one is it?" could take a long time to answer. It also could be some sort of symbolic flower, as Katana suggested for the undulating rapier. Hope this helps a little. My 0.002 centavos, F

16th November 2008, 02:13 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Good afternoon Gentlemen, Welcome Fearn, thanks for your help. I'll see if I can draw the designs on paper and upload them in a bit. Hugely greatful for your help guys.

16th November 2008, 05:05 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The border of 'petals'? is the same on both sides. The designs are crudely executed but quite complex. Excuse my scribbles, they do make the designs clearer than the photos do. I think it defiantely looks like a sunflower. Any thoughts as to why or when? Thanks Gene