Walloon sword for coments

Paul Macdonald · 13th November 2008, 08:20 PM

Hi Folks,

The Walloon is very similar to one that I have recently restored. It forms part of the armoury collection of Kelly Castle in Scotland, which I have for restoration at the moment.

Atlantia · 13th November 2008, 08:40 PM

Congratulations Fernando!!!
What a lovely example, I've always wanted one of these! I am very envious, I don't think you could have hoped to find a better one.

Manuel!

Extremely fine sword there as well!

*sigh*

So many beautiful swords in the world that I don't own!

Carl M · 8th July 2011, 12:33 AM

Very nice swords!

I recently purchased this:

M ELEY · 21st July 2011, 07:26 AM

Very nice sword, Carl! I particularly like the grotesque staring face on the guard. Is this reminescent of the so-called mourning swords portraying the "death's Head" of King Louis? These types date to the English Civil War period, contemporary with your walloon. Great find!!

Matchlock · 21st July 2011, 02:15 PM

Hi 'Nando,

I too have to join in the multifold praise of your sword though strictly speaking it is not of Walloon type but a normal field sword for cuirassiers and dragoons.

From what I have learned, a date of ca. 1700 would seem exactly correct as the use of screws on the hilt denotes, as well as the rather small knots. These do not occur on earlier types of swords.

It possibly is of German (Solingen) manufacture, and the numbering and initials relate to the bearer und regimental number. This type was in use almost over Europe, including Spain.

The other nice Walloons illustrated here I would assign to the 1640s to 1660s.

Best,
Michl

fernando · 21st July 2011, 05:56 PM

Thank you so much for your input and pictures Michl.
You will notice that, it has been almost two years since i posted this sword. In the meantime i have learned a bit more about it, namely on the typology side. It seems as the Walloon term has been used (and abused) to define the swords within a detemined area of characteristics. Such is the case of my example; having bought it as being a Wallon sword, i later learned that it is in fact, as you well alert, a Dragoon sword ... although, i repeat, it falls within the Walloon range in several sources.
As for its country of origin, that is indeed my actual concern. Certainly the (regimental) marks in the pommel would bring some light to it but, so far, no one has yet identified them.
Worthy of note is what seems to be the signature of its ownner/user in one of its guard branches.

.

Hotspur · 24th July 2011, 12:58 AM

Green plus three here to see these in other hands. I am wondering about this pair attached below. Obviously later than the Walloons but seem in kind to some other early 18th century pallasch. The swords were espied in the Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. A bit of looking about shows Haddon Hall pretty much redone and any association might be pretty vague but one thought was that they were late 18th century heavy cavalry dress swords. While the 1796 dress might somewhat resemble these, I couldn't agree and was figuring they must be a good bit earlier.

I am afraid I am probably and terminally stuck pursuing early Americana but the Walloons and later pallasch somehow seem to be part of the natural progressions of straight cavalry swords.

Cheers

GC

8th July 2011, 12:33 AM	#3
Carl M Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 20	Very nice swords! I recently purchased this: Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 11th July 2011 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Pictures direct upload

21st July 2011, 02:15 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, I too have to join in the multifold praise of your sword though strictly speaking it is not of Walloon type but a normal field sword for cuirassiers and dragoons. From what I have learned, a date of ca. 1700 would seem exactly correct as the use of screws on the hilt denotes, as well as the rather small knots. These do not occur on earlier types of swords. It possibly is of German (Solingen) manufacture, and the numbering and initials relate to the bearer und regimental number. This type was in use almost over Europe, including Spain. The other nice Walloons illustrated here I would assign to the 1640s to 1660s. Best, Michl Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 21st July 2011 at 03:09 PM.

21st July 2011, 05:56 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much for your input and pictures Michl. You will notice that, it has been almost two years since i posted this sword. In the meantime i have learned a bit more about it, namely on the typology side. It seems as the Walloon term has been used (and abused) to define the swords within a detemined area of characteristics. Such is the case of my example; having bought it as being a Wallon sword, i later learned that it is in fact, as you well alert, a Dragoon sword ... although, i repeat, it falls within the Walloon range in several sources. As for its country of origin, that is indeed my actual concern. Certainly the (regimental) marks in the pommel would bring some light to it but, so far, no one has yet identified them. Worthy of note is what seems to be the signature of its ownner/user in one of its guard branches. . Attached Images

24th July 2011, 12:58 AM	#7
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 514	Green plus three here to see these in other hands. I am wondering about this pair attached below. Obviously later than the Walloons but seem in kind to some other early 18th century pallasch. The swords were espied in the Haddon Hall in Derbyshire. A bit of looking about shows Haddon Hall pretty much redone and any association might be pretty vague but one thought was that they were late 18th century heavy cavalry dress swords. While the 1796 dress might somewhat resemble these, I couldn't agree and was figuring they must be a good bit earlier. I am afraid I am probably and terminally stuck pursuing early Americana but the Walloons and later pallasch somehow seem to be part of the natural progressions of straight cavalry swords. Cheers GC Attached Images

13th November 2008, 08:20 PM	#1
Paul Macdonald Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 48	Hi Folks, The Walloon is very similar to one that I have recently restored. It forms part of the armoury collection of Kelly Castle in Scotland, which I have for restoration at the moment.

13th November 2008, 08:40 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Congratulations Fernando!!! What a lovely example, I've always wanted one of these! I am very envious, I don't think you could have hoped to find a better one. Manuel! Extremely fine sword there as well! sigh So many beautiful swords in the world that I don't own!

21st July 2011, 07:26 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	Very nice sword, Carl! I particularly like the grotesque staring face on the guard. Is this reminescent of the so-called mourning swords portraying the "death's Head" of King Louis? These types date to the English Civil War period, contemporary with your walloon. Great find!!