My Birthday Present: Knife for ID Please

bjeweled · 6th November 2008, 01:44 AM

I was wondering with the spear, sword, axe and drum encompassed by the flag and banners...is it posssible that it is some sort of ceremonial representation...you know...kinda like what we do on the 4th of July?

As far as the tip of the blade...looks like it would open a capped bottle...say maybe, a beer bottle? Let's you know how my mind works...

fearn · 6th November 2008, 02:11 AM

Hi CourseEight,

Thanks for the information on the scabbard. I guess the question is that if you think it's been remanufactured, what is your sense of the relative age of the pieces? I won't disagree that it could have been rebuilt, but we're then left with a question of what the original pieces were, and what the current piece was supposed to do, other than be a work of art.

Hi bjeweled,

I was certainly thinking of US coins when I looked at that assemblage of designs, but reading the Wikipedia article on the fasces, the image also turned up in France from 1610-1815 in architecture, often associated with other Roman imagery (like Bacchus?). I haven't gone looking for historical fasces in Germany (I dislike wading through Nazi references), but perhaps the knife is from France?

As for the bottlecap, Wikipedia also kicked up a reference for that, and the first patent for a bottlecap was 1892. I think most of us think the knife is older than that, so it's probably not a purpose-designed bottle opener. I've got to admit, I'd thought of that too. It doesn't look like quite the right shape to pull a cork either.

Hmmm. Maybe it's a crochet hook?

F

katana · 6th November 2008, 08:59 AM

Hi
I did have another idea....but thought it would make the knife younger than everyone seems to think. However, I've learnt that my 'new' suggestion would still place this in the 19th C .

What if the 'end' of the knife is a 'can opener', the French produced canned food for the military .....but the 'can opener' was not 'invented until some 30 years later !!!! Often bayonets were used to open them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannery

and from another source....
".....by 1810 Englishman Peter Durance had taken the process a step further and sealed food in tin-plated, wrought iron containers. The soldiers who won the Battle of Waterloo five years later were nourished with the first tin cans.

But they were very thick and almost impossible to open without a hammer and chisel. Soldiers used knives, bayonets or even rocks, sometimes suffering serious injuries.

It wasn't until 1858 that the can opener was invented and having a plate of veg no longer meant risking chopping your leg off......"

Knife....military...19thC.....French ? British ?.....campaign knife.....can opener

Mystery solved

Regards David

.

6th November 2008, 01:44 AM	#1
bjeweled Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	Neato I was wondering with the spear, sword, axe and drum encompassed by the flag and banners...is it posssible that it is some sort of ceremonial representation...you know...kinda like what we do on the 4th of July? As far as the tip of the blade...looks like it would open a capped bottle...say maybe, a beer bottle? Let's you know how my mind works...

6th November 2008, 08:59 AM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi I did have another idea....but thought it would make the knife younger than everyone seems to think. However, I've learnt that my 'new' suggestion would still place this in the 19th C . What if the 'end' of the knife is a 'can opener', the French produced canned food for the military .....but the 'can opener' was not 'invented until some 30 years later !!!! Often bayonets were used to open them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannery and from another source.... ".....by 1810 Englishman Peter Durance had taken the process a step further and sealed food in tin-plated, wrought iron containers. The soldiers who won the Battle of Waterloo five years later were nourished with the first tin cans. But they were very thick and almost impossible to open without a hammer and chisel. Soldiers used knives, bayonets or even rocks, sometimes suffering serious injuries. It wasn't until 1858 that the can opener was invented and having a plate of veg no longer meant risking chopping your leg off......" Knife....military...19thC.....French ? British ?.....campaign knife.....can opener Mystery solved Regards David . Attached Images

6th November 2008, 02:11 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi CourseEight, Thanks for the information on the scabbard. I guess the question is that if you think it's been remanufactured, what is your sense of the relative age of the pieces? I won't disagree that it could have been rebuilt, but we're then left with a question of what the original pieces were, and what the current piece was supposed to do, other than be a work of art. Hi bjeweled, I was certainly thinking of US coins when I looked at that assemblage of designs, but reading the Wikipedia article on the fasces, the image also turned up in France from 1610-1815 in architecture, often associated with other Roman imagery (like Bacchus?). I haven't gone looking for historical fasces in Germany (I dislike wading through Nazi references), but perhaps the knife is from France? As for the bottlecap, Wikipedia also kicked up a reference for that, and the first patent for a bottlecap was 1892. I think most of us think the knife is older than that, so it's probably not a purpose-designed bottle opener. I've got to admit, I'd thought of that too. It doesn't look like quite the right shape to pull a cork either. Hmmm. Maybe it's a crochet hook? F