keris blade for comment.

nechesh · 11th April 2005, 08:21 PM

Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

Hi nechesh,

I understand... this is an emotional subject, which most do not realize until it bits them... For me, I am just as passionate as anyone about preserving and not damaging the least significant of these fine treasures of Indonesia. Once lost, they are lost forever! Truly, I understand both sides of the issue, and would not bring to harm a fine keris (or even a not so fine keris).

Thanks for the link, although I have already come across it in my searching. Have you tried the Arsenic Trioxide approach? I would be surprised if it works unless there is an element of sulfur involved… or my chemistry my have to go back to the drawing board. One of my fellow Chemist ended up agreeing with my assumption of the Sulfur ion exchange to Iron (independently, btw, I have worked in an R&D Lab for over 23 years)… but if Arsenic Trioxide (if it is not a brand name, or chemically more to it) created a black stain, well… I’m more than a bit confused. But, that’s the fun of it.

Rick · 11th April 2005, 09:39 PM

Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ?
Remember I am no chemist .

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 10:44 PM

Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

I think I'll pass.

nechesh · 11th April 2005, 11:52 PM

Yep, Tom, that's the way my mom made liver as well.

No Wayne, I just used the arsenic trioxide, just as specified by the formula in the thread i passed on. It works just fine.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 11:54 PM

OK nechesh.

I have posted a new thread... Plastic Keris. There you will see what it looks like now.

capt.smash · 11th April 2005, 11:52 PM

BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt.smash

BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

Thanks Smashy!

If my memory is correct (and I am getting older, so don't hold me to it), Potassium Sulfide reacts more quickly than traditional Warangan. So I will start with a more dilute solution. I will experiment on the pesi first and see what happens. Thanks for the help.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 01:14 AM

I been looking for Arsenic Trioxide (As2O3)... and I found it, it is a bit pricey. I still think Potassium Sulfide will do the trick (its cheap and safer to use), it will make silver black! It is used to make patinas on other metals too. I guess we'll see what happens...

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 02:44 AM

Wayne, when i bought my arsenic it was $25 a gram, but the hazzardous material fee was almost as much as the arsenic itself. But using the method i use actually uses very little at a time, so i still have a bit left. You will probably get a good effect from potassium sulfide, but i doubt you will get the "correct" color for the particular iron of your blade. Given the keris you are experimenting on this might not be a big concern, but it would probably make a difference in a cultural context.

12th April 2005, 01:14 AM	#10
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	arsenic trioxide (As2O3) I been looking for Arsenic Trioxide (As2O3)... and I found it, it is a bit pricey. I still think Potassium Sulfide will do the trick (its cheap and safer to use), it will make silver black! It is used to make patinas on other metals too. I guess we'll see what happens...

11th April 2005, 08:21 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

11th April 2005, 09:39 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ? Remember I am no chemist .

11th April 2005, 10:44 PM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

11th April 2005, 11:52 PM	#6
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Yep, Tom, that's the way my mom made liver as well. No Wayne, I just used the arsenic trioxide, just as specified by the formula in the thread i passed on. It works just fine.

11th April 2005, 11:54 PM	#7
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	OK nechesh. I have posted a new thread... Plastic Keris. There you will see what it looks like now.

11th April 2005, 11:52 PM	#8
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

12th April 2005, 02:44 AM	#11
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wayne, when i bought my arsenic it was $25 a gram, but the hazzardous material fee was almost as much as the arsenic itself. But using the method i use actually uses very little at a time, so i still have a bit left. You will probably get a good effect from potassium sulfide, but i doubt you will get the "correct" color for the particular iron of your blade. Given the keris you are experimenting on this might not be a big concern, but it would probably make a difference in a cultural context.