Walloon sword for coments

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2008, 12:33 AM

Very, very nice Fernando!!
These very businesslike military swords have always been most appealing to me, and I was always intrigued by the curious term for them. According to Neumann, "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", pp.156,157) these bilobate counterguard horsemans swords seem to have originated in the Low Countries around the first part of the 17th century, and gained popularity across Europe. The term 'walloon' refers to the people of Wallonia (fr.=wall), which is a region in Belgium, and it seems likely became colloquially used , probably by the French, for this type of sword.
In Wagner ("Cut and Thrust Weapons", 1967, p.372) there is an Austrian cavalry example nearly identical to yours, shown as the beginning of the 18th century. I cannot recall offhand the case with the prominant screws holding the elements of the guard to the pommel, but this seems also a very early feature, and the rebated, rounded point of the blade is most interesting. It seems these type blades are seen on German swords of this period.
I am not sure on the markings, and they same inscribed later, on the pommel seems unusual.

All best regards,
Jim

M ELEY · 4th November 2008, 04:12 AM

Awesome sword, Fernando! (green with envy, green with envy! _Did I think that aloud!). The rounded tip is just like that found on one of my swords (the Spanish bilbo). I had assumed the tip had broke & been reshaped or that it had lost its point from over-sharpening.

Jim, did I understand you correctly that some of the older swords with slightly rounded points were a common pattern in German swords? As said above, I've seen this in some Spanish pieces as well (probably imported blades, I imagine?). thanks,
Mark

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2008, 06:52 PM

Hi Mark,
I wouldnt say it was particularly common, but I have seen this rounded tip feature on a number of German 17th century blades, one with Spanish markings mounted on a Scottish baskethilt mounted c.1680. I have seen the same tip on German blades with Spanish markings found on Hungarian sword of same period. To me it has always seem interesting that the blades on Omani kattara are invariably with rounded point, as are Tuareg takoubas, both known for receiving German trade broadsword blades.

It would be interesting to check on resources to see how many instances do reveal this rounded tip, and how often they occur on German trade blades.

All the best,
Jim

4th November 2008, 12:33 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Very, very nice Fernando!! These very businesslike military swords have always been most appealing to me, and I was always intrigued by the curious term for them. According to Neumann, "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution", pp.156,157) these bilobate counterguard horsemans swords seem to have originated in the Low Countries around the first part of the 17th century, and gained popularity across Europe. The term 'walloon' refers to the people of Wallonia (fr.=wall), which is a region in Belgium, and it seems likely became colloquially used , probably by the French, for this type of sword. In Wagner ("Cut and Thrust Weapons", 1967, p.372) there is an Austrian cavalry example nearly identical to yours, shown as the beginning of the 18th century. I cannot recall offhand the case with the prominant screws holding the elements of the guard to the pommel, but this seems also a very early feature, and the rebated, rounded point of the blade is most interesting. It seems these type blades are seen on German swords of this period. I am not sure on the markings, and they same inscribed later, on the pommel seems unusual. All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 4th November 2008 at 01:41 AM.

4th November 2008, 04:12 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,156	Awesome sword, Fernando! (green with envy, green with envy! _Did I think that aloud!). The rounded tip is just like that found on one of my swords (the Spanish bilbo). I had assumed the tip had broke & been reshaped or that it had lost its point from over-sharpening. Jim, did I understand you correctly that some of the older swords with slightly rounded points were a common pattern in German swords? As said above, I've seen this in some Spanish pieces as well (probably imported blades, I imagine?). thanks, Mark

4th November 2008, 06:52 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Mark, I wouldnt say it was particularly common, but I have seen this rounded tip feature on a number of German 17th century blades, one with Spanish markings mounted on a Scottish baskethilt mounted c.1680. I have seen the same tip on German blades with Spanish markings found on Hungarian sword of same period. To me it has always seem interesting that the blades on Omani kattara are invariably with rounded point, as are Tuareg takoubas, both known for receiving German trade broadsword blades. It would be interesting to check on resources to see how many instances do reveal this rounded tip, and how often they occur on German trade blades. All the best, Jim