keris blade for comment.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 01:23 PM

Hi All,

Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well

) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade.

Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk?

To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert.

I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet

The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained.

I will post pictures as my schedule allows.

FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

Rick · 11th April 2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Hi All,

Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well

) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade.

Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk?

To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert.

I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet

The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained.

I will post pictures as my schedule allows.

FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

Hi BSMstar , from your description it sounds like a good candidate for an experiment in the adventures of staining .

I tend to over dramatize when it comes to altering an original piece .
I also tend to apply this warning as a stock answer just for the sake of consistency .

Please pardon any offense my earlier reply to you may have caused .

I am sure that you will do no harm .

Looking forward to watching the process as you report .

Rick

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 05:47 PM

BTW, my sentence structure was a bit complex, but it was Rick's example I've seen as bad as and worse than many times; the other one, the one you could read through is a particularly badly-off example though; much worse than Rick's, IMHO

The poor thing......

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi BSMstar , from your description it sounds like a good candidate for an experiment in the adventures of staining .

I tend to over dramatize when it comes to altering an original piece .
I also tend to apply this warning as a stock answer just for the sake of consistency .

Please pardon any offense my earlier reply to you may have caused .

I am sure that you will do no harm .

Looking forward to watching the process as you report .

Rick

Hi Rick!

It is very difficult to cause offense to me... and no pardon need, no offense taken. You are correct to remind and warn us of what we are about to under take (and not to do so lightly). I am just a student of life like everyone else... But, you have my permission to beat me in public if I ever do anything to a keris, the likes of what was done to the keris in the pictures we have shown!!! (My wife will gladly help... btw, she doesn't need a reason, she would just be glad to help anyway, just let her know when to show up).

I hope the only modification that occurs is the appearance of the keris being stained. Otherwise, visually there should be no other changes. I will start another thread when I gather all the materials and I am ready to start. I think LabanTayo wants to observe if he can swing it.

Captain... I am interested in your warangan or staining process, anything special to not have the nickel blacken? Extra steps?

nechesh · 11th April 2005, 08:21 PM

Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

Hi nechesh,

I understand... this is an emotional subject, which most do not realize until it bits them... For me, I am just as passionate as anyone about preserving and not damaging the least significant of these fine treasures of Indonesia. Once lost, they are lost forever! Truly, I understand both sides of the issue, and would not bring to harm a fine keris (or even a not so fine keris).

Thanks for the link, although I have already come across it in my searching. Have you tried the Arsenic Trioxide approach? I would be surprised if it works unless there is an element of sulfur involved… or my chemistry my have to go back to the drawing board. One of my fellow Chemist ended up agreeing with my assumption of the Sulfur ion exchange to Iron (independently, btw, I have worked in an R&D Lab for over 23 years)… but if Arsenic Trioxide (if it is not a brand name, or chemically more to it) created a black stain, well… I’m more than a bit confused. But, that’s the fun of it.

Rick · 11th April 2005, 09:39 PM

Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ?
Remember I am no chemist .

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 10:44 PM

Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

capt.smash · 11th April 2005, 11:52 PM

BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.

11th April 2005, 01:23 PM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi All, Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well ) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade. Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk? To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert. I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained. I will post pictures as my schedule allows. FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

11th April 2005, 05:47 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, my sentence structure was a bit complex, but it was Rick's example I've seen as bad as and worse than many times; the other one, the one you could read through is a particularly badly-off example though; much worse than Rick's, IMHO The poor thing......

11th April 2005, 08:21 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

11th April 2005, 09:39 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,366	Arsenic Trioxide plus liver of sulpher perhaps ? Remember I am no chemist .

11th April 2005, 10:44 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Liver of sulphur? I believe my mother used to make that, with onions and gravy

11th April 2005, 11:52 PM	#9
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	BSMStar no special steps taken i suspected the acidity of the fruit juice keeps the nickel clean although it did stain very slightly but after i removed the blade from the solution and ran a rag over it .....[there seemed to be a residual loose covering of stain all over the blade] it wiped off to the level that you see it now and has stayed like this despite weeks of handleing and further whipeing...i got the impresion that if i had left it any longer then the nickel would indeed have been stained....i also suspect that if this uccured then you could bathe or polish the blade with a rag soaked in lime juice to get the desired afect as the reaction that causes the staining afects and takes purchase much more on the steel than the nickel steel.