West Point Museum: Moro blades, etc.

[migueldiaz]

Last year, I visited the West Point Museum in New York, to check out the European WW2 stuff they have in there.

I was pleasantly surprised however, to see a lot of Philippine artifacts, especially Moro blades.

So here are the pics, together with the other items that caught my attention.

[migueldiaz]

[Note: In posting the pics, I sequence them by attaching them chronologically such that the ones related are side by side. But somehow the pics get rearranged! Also, the low lighting condition in the museum plus my low-tech camera are the ones responsible for the blurry pics.]

Some more pics ...

[migueldiaz]

More ... but is this particular set of pics supposed to belong more to the European swords board? ... plus the pistols are of course off-topic

[migueldiaz]

Some really ancient blades ...

[migueldiaz]

The two pics below would be the last ones I have, but they don't definitely look Moro to me

And if I'll have the opportunity to go back there, I'll definitely pay closer attention to each and every ethnographic arm they have in that museum.

Plus I hope the others who have taken better pics can also post them here.

Thanks!

PS - When I find the pics of blades I took at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, I'll also post them here.

[Bill M]

Great Pictures! Thanks for posting them!

Too bad part of the pommel is broken off. But a nice kris anyway.

[Rick]

First picture .
Is that a Sniper's rifle from the Civil War ?

[CharlesS]

Thanks for sharing. Some very interesting stuff!

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Rick

First picture .
Is that a Sniper's rifle from the Civil War ?

The period is right. It is not an Enfield. Looks like a Whitworth or a Baker. Could be a Civil War sniper. Sight tube is a little smaller diameter than usual. I'd love to have one.

I am looking at buying a Civil War sniper rifle that weighs 35 pounds. This is much heavier than an average target/sniper rifle.

One of the problems with the sight tubes was in that recoil in a light weight rifle would often give the guy sighting down the tube, a black eye. The heavier guns had less recoil, but were, of course harder to carry.

Black powder had a limit of how fast it could push a bullet. Smokeless was superior in pushing bullets faster and also did not give away the sniper's position.

Prone snipers using black powder would fire and roll away from the smoke because the other side would open fire at the smoke cloud, hoping to get lucky.

[Rick]

And the Whitworth weighed only eight pounds .
I'm sure the scope added some weight, but what a difference !
I don't believe this is one though .
http://johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm

[migueldiaz]

Hi Bill, Rick, & Charles,

With regard to that sniper rifle, below is the pic of the description (sorry for the blurry photo) -- it's a .44 caliber Morgan James target rifle.

The description reads:

Morgan James Target Rifle,
Caliber .44

Cadet military training included familiarity with the most modern equipment and designs. Therefore, in January 1860, Lt. Holabird, Adjutant of the U.S. Military Academy, wrote to Morgan James of Utica, N.Y., and ordered this rifle fully equipped with telescope sight and loading tool for $95.00.

The original order states, "It may be well to remark that this gun of yours is to be placed in the Model and Small Arms Room (today known as the West Point Museum) at the Military Academy as a specimen of the Improved American Rifle, and also to be fired in comparison with others of different designs and principals."

Muzzleloading rifles of this type were intended to be civilian target arms, but many were used during the Civil War by sharpshooters for long range sniping. As an example of their accuracy, a full-size facsimile of a target shot by Morgan James in 1859 is shown here. He fired using a rest to support the rifle at a distance of 220 yards. The shot outside the circle was the sighting shot, after which he adjusted the telescope and fired nine shots.

I also found this photo I took of a Bristish-American musket, as well as a series of photos on the Brewster-Heller body armor.

This post is off-topic, and am just posting it just the same in view of the queries on the sniper rifle.

Thank you.

[Battara]

WWI experimental armour, nice piece.

I love the barong way above.

[Rick]

Thanks Miguel !

Now that I've changed the subject; I'd like to go back to the kris pictured early on in this thread .
Let's look at it carefully; it was 'captured in battle'; kept by the Military ever since ................. and guess what ?

Wait for it .
.
.
.
.
.
.

It is etched !!

[Spunjer]

lol, who among here was the curator for that museum at one time?

[Jim McDougall]

Wow! Fantastic post Miguel, thank you for sharing the great photos from this great resource, the West Point Museum.
The holdings in this museum are truly unbelievable, and these folks are wonderful at assisting with weapons ID questions. I was amazed when researching Spanish colonial swords, how many important examples they had and shared the photos with me.

What would be great is posting some of these key items singly on their own threads so they might gain some discussion.

For example, the Hermann Goering dagger would be interesting on the European forum, as this and the SS daggers were based on the German 'Holbein daggers' .On the Ethnographic side these early symmetrical H hilts, probably from medieval baselards are the basis for many African swords from the 'Zanzibar' (Moroccan s/boula) to Congo and Ethiopian hilts.

The 'Patton' U.S. M1913 sword would be interesting on the European side, as would the WWI armour.

Great posting!!! Thank you.

All the best,
Jim

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

lol, who among here was the curator for that museum at one time?

Kidding aside Ron, what's your take on the 'etch' question ?

[migueldiaz]

Hi Battara, Jim, & Rick,

Thanks! I'm glad I can somehow contribute to this forum

Hi Spunjer,

A Filipino professional photographer who is a member of this forum also, if I recall correctly has a standing invitation from the West Point Museum to photograph the Filipino collection (which reportedly are many!).

If only I can also have the privilege to lay my eyes on those blades. It's not fair

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by Rick

Kidding aside Ron, what's your take on the 'etch' question ?

hey rick,

i just find it amusing that it seems like moro weapons equals must etch. IMHO this was more of a personal choice back in the days..