Incendiary quarrels/arrows/crossbow bolts

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Michael,
Thank you for these fantastic rare items of ordnance! (sorry about the dumb bomb story .
Like Mark, I'd never heard of incendiary quoits either, and these items really put perspective into the warfare of the times. Whats really amazing is that these have survived, I've never even seen them in catalogs.
Outstanding material!

All the best,
Jim

[M ELEY]

Yes, donuts...the kind James Bond would be served! Don't dip in coffee!

Actually, Jim, I enjoyed your story and it's too bad you don't still have that dummy bomb. Sounds very cool. Getting back to incendiaries, I just read an interesting story from a book on Ft Macon (a Civil War fort near Atlantic Beach,NC) called "The last Shot of the Civil War". It seems that during WWII, with all the submarine activity off our coast, the U.S. Army sent down some soldiers from New York to stay at the well-preserved bunker in case of a shore invasion. A large camp was set up, with many of the soldiers staying in the walls of the fort. One cold night, the 'yankee soldiers' decided to start a fire and used an old cannon ball as an andiron.(Not being rude here. I'm a yank myself from Ohio, but have lived in NC for 20 years) The resulting explosion flung men across the room and injured one soldier. Moral of the story- don't use ordinance in a fireplace. Moral #2- Don't anger any old Confederate ghosts!

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks Mark! and great story on the cannonball in the fire!!!

This is a pretty interesting topic and recalls some of the items you brought up in the pirate discussions, and Gilkerson.

How were these quoits used anyway Michael ?, ignited and launched off a pole or something? I've heard of the grenades but not these.

All the best,
Jim

[Matchlock]

Hi Jim,

Sotheby's catalog description calls them QUOITES - is QUOITS American or just a modern version?

I have been told that they were set on fire and just thrown down from the town walls to welcome the enemy. As the sulfur and tar are said to splatter all around and make the flesh burn, the result must have been gruesome.

I also heard that they were stuck on poles to shed their light on fests in times of peace.

The are quite common in old German, Austrian and Swiss armories/museums and, as I wrote, sometimes could be purchased at auctions. The prices vary but are approximately 1,500 USD a piece.

I have four quoit(e)s, all of them different. I love them as they smell extremely old and dangerous giving my arms room the singular smell of an old armory. If you have ever been to the Landeszeughaus Graz, Austria, with more than 30,000 16th-17th century weapons you will know what I mean.

A friend of mine has a more quoit(e)s than I and would probably deaccession of one or two. Only the shipping will not be easy as they are rather fragile.
Anyone interested?

All the best to you,
Michael

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Michael,
Thank you for the explanation on the use of these. The reason the term quoit is so interesting is because it is the term used for the razor sharp discs with open centers typically associated with Sikh warriors who were deadly accurate at launching them . The Hindu term Chakra usually was used until the Sikh application became quoit.

It does sound gruesome with the magma like sulfur and tar, splattering and attaching its molten presence to flesh, reminding me of the instances in less warlike circumstances of roasting marshmallows and accidentally splashed scalding liquid.

I know exactly what you mean with that semi acrid, dank smell which propels a room as you describe into battlement times of long ago.....there is nothing else that can duplicate that wonderful smell....much like that of a room full of really old books!

I have never been to the Landeszeughaus in Graz, but I do have the book about its fantastic collections, and imagine it as a sort of arms paradise.

Thank you for sharing these Michael,

All the best,
Jim

[Matchlock]

Good mornig, Jim,

It's 6 a.m. in Bavaria and I must find some sleep.

Thank you so much for explaining the semantic derivation of "quoit" - I would never have thought that.

Such highly specified knowledge, together with the high standard of formulating your pointed sentences and using elite structure shows me to things: your wide-range and at the same time manifold top level education (certainly partly self-taught) and your extreme personal energy to accomplish the rest.

Gosh, I wish I had more of your gifts. My arms hobby has made my life too one-dimensional.

Send me some lines again, if you like.

Best wishes,
Michael

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Good mornig, Jim,

It's 6 a.m. in Bavaria and I must find some sleep.

Thank you so much for explaining the semantic derivation of "quoit" - I would never have thought that.

Such highly specified knowledge, together with the high standard of formulating your pointed sentences and using elite structure shows me to things: your wide-range and at the same time manifold top level education (certainly partly self-taught) and your extreme personal energy to accomplish the rest.

Gosh, I wish I had more of your gifts. My arms hobby has made my life too one-dimensional.

Send me some lines again, if you like.

Best wishes,
Michael

Michael, I am very deeply honored by these very kind compliments! Thank you! If I may, just say that my only true education has been here, on these forums, and my teachers have been the members here, who like you have openly shared thier weapons, interests and observations.

Actually, the weapons themselves truly teach us, as we seek to find the answers they hold using the often subtle clues they carry. The only knowledge I have has been from following these clues, along with the others in research into nearly every conceivable avenue of history to follow the trail.
I cannot possibly imagine the collecting and studying weapons as being in any way one dimensional, especially those of the stature of those you have shared with us here! You are much too modest Michael, and I believe I speak for everyone in saying we are fortunate to have you with us.

Thank you again!

All very best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Michael,
Thank you for the explanation on the use of these. The reason the term quoit is so interesting is because it is the term used for the razor sharp discs with open centers typically associated with Sikh warriors who were deadly accurate at launching them . The Hindu term Chakra usually was used until the Sikh application became quoit.

It does sound gruesome with the magma like sulfur and tar, splattering and attaching its molten presence to flesh, reminding me of the instances in less warlike circumstances of roasting marshmallows and accidentally splashed scalding liquid.

I know exactly what you mean with that semi acrid, dank smell which propels a room as you describe into battlement times of long ago.....there is nothing else that can duplicate that wonderful smell....much like that of a room full of really old books!

I have never been to the Landeszeughaus in Graz, but I do have the book about its fantastic collections, and imagine it as a sort of arms paradise.

Thank you for sharing these Michael,

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim ~ The term Quoit is interesting as it appears to be an English derivation possibly after 1066 from the French.

Quoit (n.) late 14c., "curling stone," perhaps from O.Fr. coite "flat stone" (with which the game was originally played), lit. "cushion," variant of coilte (see quilt).

Quoits were among the games prohibited by Edward III and Richard II to encourage archery. In reference to a heavy flat iron ring (and the tossing game played with it) it is recorded from mid-15c.

I also noted on one of my frequent trips to the UK that it is commonly played as a Pub game in the Welsh borders and in the North East of England both in and outdoors depending on the weather. The flat iron ring appears to derive from a horse shoe. A metal spike is driven into the ground wherupon contestants try to throw quoit onto the ring from a certain distance. Quite difficult with hiccups !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Matchlock]

Hi Ibrahiim,


Thank you so much for your teatise on quoits!

I found a good illustration of a 15th c. incendiary arrow in Philip Mönch's Kriegsbuch, 1496, Universitätsbiblitothek Heidelberg, Cod.Pal.germ. 126, fol. 28r.


Best,
Michael