Takouba for coments ... and a question

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I think the smaller size hilt may suggest earlier 20th century, as well as the brass ring etc., you do present a good case, but I wouldnt go earlier than about the 30's. It really is hard to say, as it doesnt take long for leather to draw tight, even without being in the elements in the desert ...

Well, you can't win them all .
Thanks a lot for your impressions, Jim.
Fernando

[katana]

Hi Fernando ,
Takouba and Kaskara tend to be re-hilted / re-sheathed fairly regularly. My understanding is that, locally, there is no interest or prestige in 'old' hilts, if its worn out ...they are replaced. However sometimes older brass/copper crossguards and pommels are re-used, if undamaged.

On that basis it is the blade that is the determining factor. The fullers can be an indicator of age....more recent ones are almost all ground...not forged. Many more recent Takouba tend to be very thin and springy.....as vehicle 'leaf springs' are often used and re-cycled. Crossguards and the handles are often made from sheet metal, again often re-cycled from scrap. I have seen one where the leather covering had come away revealing an old 'Shell Oil' logo (possibly 1950's).
It seems that older blades tend to be 'thicker'.......why more recent ones are quite thin ..I do not know....unless it is that they are now only regarded as a 'dress item'.

As a footnote, I have also noticed many blades are heavily scratched....I wonder whether sand is used as an abrasive cleaner

Kind Regards David

[Lee]

Fernando, that is a nice takouba you have there. The details on the pommel are a bit different than I have seen before. I believe that this one does have some age to it, though I am not yet skilled enough to discern late 19th from early 20th century against regional variations. The blade looks to be a European import from the moon marks, if it is very springy this would corroborate the impression of European origin. A nice example that I'd not hesitate to add to my own collection...

Originally Posted by katana

Takouba and Kaskara tend to be re-hilted / re-sheathed fairly regularly. My understanding is that, locally, there is no interest or prestige in 'old' hilts, if its worn out ...they are replaced.

The takouba at the top of the page is my 'newest' takouba and at the same instant also my 'oldest' takouba. The mountings are from within the last decade, the European blade is very possibly 17th century and like one of those depicted in Briggs.

I believe the attitude noted above reflects that the sword is still "alive" within that culture, rather than merely an antique curiosity, as is the case with so many of the old weapons we enjoy. If we had an excuse to wear our favorite swords out and about every day, I suspect we also be inclined to keep the mounts up to date and in good repair. I must admit that I would.

Originally Posted by katana

As a footnote, I have also noticed many blades are heavily scratched....I wonder whether sand is used as an abrasive cleaner.

I actually know the answer to this as it was demonstrated to me one night around the campfire, I believe by one of the drivers, who was delighted by the quality of the springy (European) blade of a takouba I had bought in Agadez at the start of the journey. A rounded (desert weathered) stone is used in one hand to hone the blade, grinding parallel to the length of the blade which is held with the other hand over the lap, the blade's tip flat on the side of the foot. This was not a special stone, though I was told favorite stones were kept to be re-used, but merely one picked up after a brief search in the area, which fit the hand well and appeared to be something like quartz.

I kept the stone and the takouba remains a favorite; again an older blade fairly recently remounted. The blue arrows show where the patina of the stone was disturbed by its use to sharpen the sword. The mounts are fairly modern and dressy, but it was the quality of the blade which was delighting our expedition's staff.

[fernando]

Hi David, thank you for your impressions.
I see that Lee has comented your post on the points he found worthy of note; i don't think i can add much to the remaining parts of your input, except that i will pray to the Gods to avoid me uncovering the leather work of my example and get acquainted with some oil company publicity
One point i might yet raise about the grooves; would it be possible/plausible that in some cases blades be acquired from trade sources (imported or so) with flat faces, and later have the three grooves ground, to follow local takouba tradition ?

Thanks a lot Lee, for your experienced clarifications. It's quite comforting to know that you wouldn't desdain from joining this takouba to your collection.
I wouldn't know how to judge its blade temper (spring) propperties, but i find that it offers some reasonable resistence to bending, as also it allways keeps its complete straightness, contrary to several blades one finds out there.
I had read in your article how those guys sharpen these blades; i see that you keep with pleasure the stone they gave you, but i must say i was delighted with the tea glass sharpening system.
I can see that my example appears to have sharpening marks made by distinct resources ; i wonder if those dots were made by a less rural device.

Fernando

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[Jim McDougall]

Hi Fernando,
I really didn't mean to sound discouraging in my assessment. As has been well pointed out by David and Lee, these swords are very much important heirlooms, and more recent mounts are not in the least detrimental.
I am the first to avoid 'modern' weapons, however I very much respect the swords still being used in the 1930's and 40's. In Saudi Arabia, the Bedouin were still fighting and raiding with swords. In the Caucusus, the Khevsur tribes were still wearing chain armour and fighting with swords. In the Sahara the Tauregs still wear the takouba as Lee has noted, and one Fur tribesman I spoke with described the kaskaras still treasured and worn by tribal elders.

Its the blades that maintain the profound tradition, and in many cultures it is considered disrespectful to leave them in worn or shabby mounts.
Like Lee has said, it is really hard to assess these blades, especially from photos. The 'springier' examples tend to be European as he has noted but the moon marks seem more native in thier form and positioning, so there you have it.

On the comment on recent oil company identifier on the components...I recall a heavy dha I once bought which was Thai, and had a beautifully repoussed and silvered mounting. One evening while looking closely at the mounts, as I admired the great old blade...I was horrified as I found a marking deep in the silverwork......'Eveready' !!!
In recalling it now, I realize the blade was key, and the mounts simply local maintainance of an old sword. Its just a matter of perspective I guess.

All the best,
Jim

[Lee]

Originally Posted by fernando

would it be possible/plausible that in some cases blades be acquired from trade sources (imported or so) with flat faces, and later have the three grooves ground, to follow local takouba tradition?

Those thin, narrow grooves are, in fact, features of the European trade blades of the 18th century and likely into the 19th century and are seen in other locally mounted swords throughout the world that use these blades.

The half-moons also started out on the European blades. Your blade is difficult to be certain of, origin wise. The quality of the half-moons is fairly good and they do appear more stamped than chiseled. So, without handling it, I am unsure as to whether this is a European blade or a carefully made local blade with added features from the trade blades. I flip back and forth as I look at it - but my attraction to this example remains unwavering. It is a nice example.

A stock-removal blade formed from sheet metal would, I suspect, likely not be earlier than the 20th century, although Briggs does show some examples retaining manufacturers stamps from presumed sheet stock. I have a sheet-metal bladed kaskara.

[fernando]

Thank you so much Lee, for the clarification on the grooves and all the other impressions.
I have made close up pictures of the half-moons in both blade faces. It appears they were not chiseled, but instead stamped, judging by some defect occurred in both sides, making one thing the marks were done with a (same) punch device.
... this if i catch your meaning and if i can see with the propper eyes.

Concerning sheet-metal, and again begging tolerance for my layman's eyes, this one certainly isn't made with such material ... for what matters. As i said before, and just tested again, i repeatedly bend it and it allways comes back to absolute straightness.
Fernando

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[Lew]

Fernando

Here are a few pics of a mid 20th century takouba for comparison


Lew