Blunderbuss

[celtan]

Hi Guys,

I was reading yesterday the book of "Small arms of the Spanish Treasure Fleets" and it states that the Spanish never made Blunderbusses in Brass. So either they are wrong, or this one is either English, Belgian or French...

Toots

Manolo

[Ed]

Dunno. The proportions look off for a Brit weapon. Also, the one thing the Brits do do is make sure things are marked.

[celtan]

I agree Ed.

There's a shield with four chambers mark right atop the brass barrel, but nothing much can be made out of it.

What do you think, Fer, ¿portugués?

Is Matchlock around? Michael seems to be the guy to ask.

Manuel

Originally Posted by Ed

Dunno. The proportions look off for a Brit weapon. Also, the one thing the Brits do do is make sure things are marked.

[Atlantia]

Hi all!
Back again :-)
Could it be an east India Co piece?
Its a nice 'stubby' little beast!

Have you taken it to bits to search for hidden markings?

Regards
Gene

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi all!
Back again :-)
Could it be an east India Co piece?
Its a nice 'stubby' little beast!

Have you taken it to bits to search for hidden markings?

Regards
Gene

Unlikely to be East India Co unless stamped with their mark. To me the stock LOOKS British, but the barrel looks more Turkish???? There is a thing called a KNEE PISTOL used from horseback, and resembling a short Blunderbus which was a Turkish weapon. Maybe this is one?? OR..............
Is the stock British, and had an eastern barrel added at some later stage?
The plot thickens!
Regards Stuart

[celtan]

Not Turkish, the stock is all wrong for them. And they are characteristically more decorated. Of course, that applies to the ones I have seen so far.

Perhaps there were exceptions, but this one doesn't feel Turkish at all...

I read somewhere that europeans used brass blunderbusses, often at sea. They could only load lead shot, since anything else (as the stories went about stones, bolts, etc...) would destroy the softer barrel. Another advantage the significantly costlier barrels had was is that they didn't rust, and when they exploded from overuse or overload, they usually only deformed or split.

OTOH, overstressed iron barrels would explode like a grenade

And no, I haven't yet dismounted the lock. Will soon do.

Toots

: )

M

[kahnjar1]

I agree that this is not Turkish, but my suggestion was that POSSIBLY a British stock had been (re)mated with an eastern barrel, thereby creating a "kneepistol"
Regards S

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

... What do you think, Fer, ¿portugués? ...

You almost made me a name ... Fertuguês ( Fertuguese) .
I don't know. When i came back home, the other day, i thaught i would locate something of the kind in my ( hoping to be) library but, instead, i only spotted a couple specimens with a much more moderate barrel. This one of yours has quite a trumpet one, half way to a grenade thrower ... pass the exageration .
Yeah, the stock looks British, but could also only be 'a la British', made anywhere else. Perhaps we could say the same about the lock ?.
Why couldn't this be a Belgium setup ... or even a Turkish cocktail, as sugested by Stu, what do i know?
French not likely ... again marks and smith name missing
Surprises might pop up when (if) you decide to dismount the barrel. Often you don't see any proof marks showing off, while smiths fancy punctioning their symbols underneath the barrel.
Hope you don't mind, i'm checking a couple sources, to hear their opinnion.
A sus ordenes.
Fernando

[celtan]

I saw a picture of one just like mine in a local National Parks Services Library's book, IDed as european. They wouldn't allow me photocopying the page, arguing potential copyright infringement issues. I explained to them it didn't apply for this case, but apparently they don't know the applying laws, and don't care to learn them either...

I have seen several spanish blunderbusses of identical design, but in iron. In fact, the stock design is identical to my flintlock fusil Modelo 1792. That's the reason I suspect it's either Belgian or French. Although the four chambered shield atop the barrel is very similar to that of Spain, with a Crown sitting on top...

[celtan]

Actually, I envy you the availability of Fer as your potential nom-de-guerre.

In pre-roman Galicia, Fer meant Fire. In post-Roman Galicia, it meant Iron. That's the base for the Her-nandez/ Fer-nandez last name. Just as the Her-rrero / Ferrero (The [H] was pronounced lat. [F]/eng. [PH]). In pre-roman Galicia, Iron wss Ir/Er, the basis for Iron and Ehre...

So Fer-nando would mean Fire / Iron something or other...

Have to Love phylology....

: )

Originally Posted by fernando

You almost made me a name ... Fertuguês ( Fertuguese) .
I don't know. When i came back home, the other day, i thaught i would locate something of the kind in my ( hoping to be) library but, instead, i only spotted a couple specimens with a much more moderate barrel. This one of yours has quite a trumpet one, half way to a grenade thrower ... pass the exageration .
Yeah, the stock looks British, but could also only be 'a la British', made anywhere else. Perhaps we could say the same about the lock ?.
Why couldn't this be a Belgium setup ... or even a Turkish cocktail, as sugested by Stu, what do i know?
French not likely ... again marks and smith name missing
Surprises might pop up when (if) you decide to dismount the barrel. Often you don't see any proof marks showing off, while smiths fancy punctioning their symbols underneath the barrel.
Hope you don't mind, i'm checking a couple sources, to hear their opinnion.
A sus ordenes.
Fernando

[Atlantia]

There might be identifiable marks on the underside of that barrel Manuel ;-)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

Actually, I envy you the availability of Fer as your potential nom-de-guerre.

In pre-roman Galicia, Fer meant Fire. In post-Roman Galicia, it meant Iron. That's the base for the Her-nandez/ Fer-nandez last name. Just as the Her-rrero / Ferrero (The [H] was pronounced lat. [F]/eng. [PH]). In pre-roman Galicia, Iron wss Ir/Er, the basis for Iron and Ehre...

So Fer-nando would mean Fire / Iron something or other...

Have to Love phylology....

: )

Phylo what? I want to be one, too
Yeah, we actually write and say Ferro and Ferreiro over here .
But i don't know why, when you call me Fer, i thaught you wanted to sound English

Fernando

[celtan]

Oh No! That version would be "Ferd", and I'm sorry to say, it would sound nerdish, and Ferdie would be even worse.Don't take my word for it, just ask some of the local posters who hight from the misty isles...


Now that I think about it, that's how the galegos refer to Britain, or was it Ireland?. Misty isles. Is it the same everywhere else?

Fer, OTOH, sounds kinda cool. A suitable name even for "World of Warcraft".

: )

Myself, I hate to be called Manny. Too culturally hybrid.

Toots!

Manuel / Manolo

Originally Posted by fernando

Phylo what? I want to be one, too
Yeah, we actually write and say Ferro and Ferreiro over here .
But i don't know why, when you call me Fer, i thaught you wanted to sound English

Fernando

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by celtan

Actually, I envy you the availability of Fer as your potential nom-de-guerre.

In pre-roman Galicia, Fer meant Fire. In post-Roman Galicia, it meant Iron. That's the base for the Her-nandez/ Fer-nandez last name. Just as the Her-rrero / Ferrero (The [H] was pronounced lat. [F]/eng. [PH]). In pre-roman Galicia, Iron wss Ir/Er, the basis for Iron and Ehre...

So Fer-nando would mean Fire / Iron something or other...

Have to Love phylology....

: )

Well, if there was a phrase that ever described Fernando...it would be fire+iron.......not blacksmith, but hot metal.....for the outstanding weapons he has collected, keeps finding, and shares openly here!!!

I have learned more from him on the importance of the Portuguese in history in the time I've known him than in all the years I've studied weapons!

Thanks Fernando,
All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well, if there was a phrase that ever described Fernando...it would be fire+iron.......not blacksmith, but hot metal.....for the outstanding weapons he has collected, keeps finding, and shares openly here!!!

I have learned more from him on the importance of the Portuguese in history in the time I've known him than in all the years I've studied weapons!

Thanks Fernando,
All the best,
Jim

Whhhhhat ?

Don't pay any notice to what Jim is saying, people